Strange Gottlieb HJ

**alex gross** · 10-07-2018, 09:57 AM

Hi guys!
This "blade" owned by a friend of mine.
Scabbard looks fine.
Never seen before this rzm blade marked variant Gottlieb. Fake? Just saw the ricasso rzm marked pieces.
No maker's name but the motto on it!!!
How about it?
Thank you!

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-07-2018 09:57 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Mac 66** · 10-07-2018, 01:46 PM

Hi Alex,

I have never seen a mottoed RZM marked only hj by Gottlieb Hammesfahr!

Overall i like what i see, blade looks to have the same age as the rest of the knife, also the grip rivets seem to be factory fitted with nice griplates & a genuine diamond insignia, hope this helps.

Regards Mac 66

**Anderson** · 10-07-2018, 01:51 PM

Alex, the scabbard looks fine. But here's the problem. Gottlieb Hammesfahr were one of those makers that pretty much used their maker name and trademark (pyramid on the reverse blade side) through to 1941. And in fact they put the RZM code and logo on the front ricasso (quite unusual).
Here is a photo of another 1938 dated Hammesfahr, markings are quite different to the one you posted, sorry image is small.

**Mac 66** · 10-07-2018, 02:05 PM

Always expect the unexpected , never say never until an item is proven to be bad, keep an open mind, i am always willing to learn, if i get it wrong then i have learned something new.

**Anderson** · 10-07-2018, 02:22 PM

Mac, it might still correct if in early 1938 the company was trialing RZM only marks. The example I posted is dated 1938, but has no motto, so could be late 1938. Could it be the example Alex posted is from early 1938, and for some reason the company reverted to it's traditional marks from late 1938. I note that on Lakeside trader they have a 1941 example marked exactly like the example I posted.

**stingray** · 10-07-2018, 02:24 PM

I see no problem there.
Because we know one 1938 mark,it doesn't mean they didn't tried different styles that year.
We can't reject one piece just because we never seen one.
Just my opinion

**alex gross** · 10-07-2018, 06:00 PM

Thank you for your answers gentlemen.
Why went the rzm code from ricasso to the center of blade larger size?
Why there is no maker name?
Why not another example this variant?
Too much why to me.

It might also be a fake marks for extra money?

**Mac 66** · 10-08-2018, 01:46 PM

Alex, try posting it on German daggers forum or WAF for opinions as Herman V. Is a member of both forums & might give you his opinion on this one.

Cheers Mac 66