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1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

Article about: Bought this week a WW1 belt, buckle and bayonet. To be exact a WW1 Bavarian belt and buckle. The all-steel buckle measures 47mm x 63mm, looking a examples shown on collectors guild & das

  1. #1
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    Default 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    Bought this week a WW1 belt, buckle and bayonet. To be exact a WW1 Bavarian belt and buckle. The all-steel buckle measures 47mm x 63mm, looking a examples shown on collectors guild & das-koppelschloss.de websites, these steel buckles were issued from 1915/18 and comparing the crown design & sizes it appears mine was issued only in 1915 for one year, then in 1916 came a king's crown - bigger with a slightly different design until 1918.
    My questions to the members, what's the crown on my buckle ? and on the belt is MM stamp - *****ier - 1915 - Neu Ulm. I only know of one belt maker from Neu-Ulm - Kern Kläge & Cie and this name doesn't fit. Do members have any information.
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    Last edited by AlecH; 03-08-2013 at 06:11 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    Could it be a Hessen Crown?
    Ben

  4. #3
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    Default Re: 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    Hi Ben,
    That was one suggestion I hadn't reckoned with - a Hessen Crown on a Bavarian koppelschloss, I would have thought highly unlikely, however I've just spent a hour on goggle tracking down Hessen crown jewels, not so easy as they were stolen by the American forces at the end of WW2. The couple of Hessen crowns pictures I did manage find were a different design. I was thinking along the lines used by the British army on their cap badges - when the monarch was male - a cap badge with large crown, when female - a smaller crown. The flaw with this logic, when transported to the Bavarian royal family is I don't think they had a female sovereign in the 20th centenary, unless a female member of the family was the honorary head of the Bavarian army ? - as I say in my first post these small crown buckles were only issued for a short time - one year 1915 after that 1916 onwards it was a King's crown. Well I'll start looking through the Bavarian crown jewels. Any thoughts on a Neu- Ulm belt maker ?.

  5. #4

    Default Re: 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    Hi Alec, thats all I could think of to be honest, I dont really collect WW1 gear, mainly WW2, in ref to the belt, not sure of the maker but it is original
    Ben

  6. #5
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    This may just be a manufactures variation. For example I have a couple of fire police buckle one with a large swastika and small Gott Mit Uns and the other has a small swastika and large Gott Mit Uns.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    A collector gave me the tip that belt maker is Hans Römer from Neu-Ulm - looking at the stamp and knowing the name, I can see now that it fits the stamp. The crown sizes / styles seem a more vexed question. Looking through a pictorial history of Bavarian buckles actually its not so long 1887 - 1918, starts off 1887/95 brass with steel roundel small crown. Then 1895 - 1915 brass with steel roundel large crown. 1915 all steel small crown. 1916/18 all steel large crown. Same applies to Bavarian Telegraph troops messing buckles with steel roundel small crown, later all steel buckles large crown.
    The next meeting of my military collectors club is Easter Saturday providing most of the members don't go away I may get something out of them, again thanks for the help.

  8. #7

    Default Re: 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    Cheers for that info Alec very interesting, so in all the buckle you have is a variation made around 1915 so if made just for one year must be a limited edition so to speak
    Ben

  9. #8
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    Glad you found your info on the buckle. I have a Rural Police belt from Hans Romer and I have had a Romer shako.

  10. #9

    Default Re: 1915 Bavarian Steel Buckle - Small Crown why ?

    Hello,

    I can confirm that the belt maker is Hans Romer of Neu Ulm, as i have a P08 holster made by the same maker with the same stamping

    Considering the bavarian buckle, as Kirby said, it is certainly a manufacturers variation and the small and big crowns can be found on the different models of bavarian buckles, the 50mm brass and nickel, the 45mm brass and nickel and the pressed steel one

    Manufacturers variations can also be found on the Prussian buckles with slightly different crown designs, but it is less evident than the Bavarian crowns

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