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EM Krätzchen: WW1 German Field caps/Feldmutze

Article about: Anton, super caps ! I like the covers for your Pickelhaubes too ! your cammo band has the same markings as mine, 3rd Bavarian Army Korps 1917, great stuff, the markings in your "Dunkelb

  1. #111

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    Quote by Bill Brewster View Post
    Hello,

    I came across this thread regarding the feldmutze while doing research. In an early posted description of the cap it states that the coloured band at the base is 3.2cm. I am wondering if this dimension, 3.2cm, is actually the width of the base fabric cap band as it appears that on many examples the coloured band has less width. Two examples I am able to access have bands that are 2.359cm.

    The reason for the question is that we are working on a project at the First Division Museum in Wheaton, IL. Our museum is dedicated to the United States Army's 1st Infantry Division. Organizational lore suggests that the original "1's" were cut from the red coloured band taken from captured feldmutzes. The thinking is that the serifed foot of the "1" would be equivalent to the width of the coloured band on the mutze.

    Thank you for any assistance or direction you may provide.

    Take care,

    Bill Brewster
    Chief Curator
    First Division Museum

    If anyone else can help Mr Brewster, please feel free to chime in.
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  2. #112

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    Have you any photos of the SSI in question? I have 7 caps from different clothing depots, and can try to assess the colour. Most of my caps run in the 2,7 to 3cm band width.

  3. #113

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    Hi, all my caps also run the same width of approx. 2.8cm. That said I assume there was more cloth used to make the band as surely some must run either behind or under the cloth it was attached to ? That would account for the extra width on the "1" ....or have I got the wrong end of the stick ?

    cheers

    Tony

  4. #114

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    Hello Gentlemen,

    Thank you all for the generous sharing of information. Below is the "origin" story of the 1st Division (US) insignia as related by the officer who claims to have created it. I am not entirely convinced that his memory is correct, but it is what we have to work with. Take care, Bill

    Herbert M. Stoops was a Lieutenant in Battery C, Sixth Field Artillery. In a letter to David W. Davis, Secretary of the Society of the First Division, which was published in the Vol. 6 No. 7 December 1948 issue of the Bridgehead Sentinel, he wrote:

    Dear Davis,
    Enclosed is a replica of the old One as first made. It was short and stocky-the width of the figure being determined only by the width of the red stripe around the kraut infantry fatigue cap. When originally submitted, the shield was German field gray. The ONE, bright vermillion red. The powers that were anticipated trouble getting enough grey cloth and substituted O.D. and so it was made.
    Having gratuitously stuck my neck out I must have cut a thousand stencils while we sat on our fannys east of the Rhine in the winter of 1918-1919. I believe it was the first divisional insignia adopted in the American forces. This sort of comes under the heading of “I remember when” – but there has been some ill -founded legend out of a little happenstance that was absurdly simple.

    Unfortunately, the "replica" Mr. Stoops submitted is no longer in existence.

  5. #115

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    The colour band, or Besatzstreifen, which was bright red (names and definitions for Vermillion may differ wit language and opinions over time) on the Dunkelblau blue cap and the Feldgrau cap. In 1910 the regulation changed the width from 3.0 cm to 2.7cm. That was the visible width. A disassembled cap would yield perhaps 50-55 usable cm of red wool. These caps were worn throughout the war.

  6. #116

    Default B.a. B.s.

    Gentlemen, I have a question for you concerning a Prussian infanty M1910 Feldmütze in my collection:

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    Construction and condition are unremarkable, but it has a most unusual Bekleidungsamt stamp.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've never seen a depot stamp use the old German Fraktur font before. Naturally, such things are to be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism, but I have no doubt that the piece is genuine. The last two letters are obviously "B" and "A" followed by the roman numeral IV, but the first letter doesn't really seem to conform to any specific letter in the rest of the alphabet:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'd hazard to guess it's a "K", but that's only because that would seem to be the most plausible. If any of you have seen a Fraktur stamping before or have any ideas as to what this means, it would be most appreciated. Thank you!

  7. #117
    ?

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    I read the first letter as a "K" as well. I believe KBA stands for Krieg Bekleidungsamt . As to use of Fraktur font, I've seen it before but can remember now for which crops.

  8. #118

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    Kriegs Bekleidungsamt IV, IV Armee Korps, which included the Prussian Province of Saxony, as well as Anhalt. That should place this with regiments like JR26, JR27, FR36 and JR66, at a quick glance.

    While uncommon, some BA's did use the Fraktur lettering. Somewhat unusual to see on a KBA, but being Saxony-Anhalt, it does not surprise me.

    I was watching this one--very nice find. Congratulations!

    I've never seen a depot stamp use the old German Fraktur font before. Naturally, such things are to be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism, but I have no doubt that the piece is genuine. The last two letters are obviously "B" and "A" followed by the roman numeral IV, but the first letter doesn't really seem to conform to any specific letter in the rest of the alphabet:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'd hazard to guess it's a "K", but that's only because that would seem to be the most plausible. If any of you have seen a Fraktur stamping before or have any ideas as to what this means, it would be most appreciated. Thank you![/QUOTE]

  9. #119

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    Thank you; I very much appreciate your helpful information! This actually turned out to be a surprisingly nice piece. Despite some slight mothing, particularly around the band, overall it's quite clean and the feldgrau retains an excellent thickness. It's a standout of my modest collection.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #120
    ?

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    There is a possibility the the marking is "RBA" (Reserve Bekleidungsamt ?) Col. J. shows such a stamp for BA XVIII ( Kammerstempel – Infantry | Colonel J's ). He also shows a stamp for the 2nd Telegraph Battalion that appears to be in a non-Latin scrip.

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