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Hessian mutze?

Article about: Gentlemen, I now have the additional photos posted in the WW1 German Field caps/Feldmutze thread. Anton

  1. #1

    Default Hessian mutze?

    Gentlemen,

    I've seen a Mutze that I'm thinking of purchasing and would like to run this by you first. I have only the two photos that are posted (wish I had more) and the limited information that I have posted. It's supposedly a Feldmutze from a Train Batallion em issue with Prussian kokarde, marked "marked 'B.A.XI.' inside, which makes it Electorial Hessian Train Batln. #11 from Cassel, raised in 1854." Now I know it should have a Hessian kokarde on it. not a Prussian. Your opinions?

    Anton


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  2. #2

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Anton

    The marking "B.A.XI" is that of the Clothing Depot of the 11th Army Corps (Bekleidungsamt des XI Armeekorps) rather than the unit you describe.

    "B.A" can also represent Management Detachment (Betriebs-Abteilung) but when applied to equipment such as as holsters and clothing it is taken to mean the Clothing Depot. (Source: The Imperial German Regimental Marking by Jeff Noll.)

    The Bekleidungsamt of the various Armee Korps were responsible for the acquisition, manufacturing and repair of uniforms and accoutrements (and some other items of equipment) to be issued to that Korps.

    Hope that helps.

    Regards

    Richie

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Richie,

    Yes I'm aware that the stamp is designating the 11th Army Corp, my question was since the band color is suppose to represent a train unit, would it be the Electorial Hessian Train Batln. #11 assigned to the 11th Army corp. My references to this unit is limited and I'm not fully sure that this Mutze is correct (Like having a Prussian kokarde on it instead of a Hessian one)

    Anton

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    It is a model 1907/10 field cap, it looks O.K. from the photograph you show, it would of belonged to an EM/NCO from "Kurhessisches Train-Bataillon Nr.11" garrisoned at Cassel and indeed it was attached to XI Armee Korps. IMO it bears the clothing store stamp of that Armee Korps.....the Reichs kockarde is missing and the landeskockarde being Prussian is incorrect...although that said, the default wappen for a Hessian Pickelhaube was the Prussian wappen, when stocks ran out !....the cockade attached is an NCO/peaked cap variety, these were worn on field caps. If I were to obtain this cap, I would restore with correct kockarden, they are available.
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Gentlemen,

    Thank you for your replys, Steve and Richie, That answers my doubts that I had on this item. Thank you very much. I will post new photos when the Mutze arrives.

    Anton

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Gentlemen,

    Received the Mutze and now know why the Prussian Kokarde was sewn on (To cover some mothing) as soon as I can find some correct kokardes, I will post new photos.

    Anton

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Hello,

    i think that there is some kind of misenderstanding between Kurhessen and Grossherzogtum Hessen in this thread

    Kurhessen was part of the prussian contingent and wore prussian uniforms like infantry regiments 81, 82 and 83

    Grossherzogtum Hessen had specific uniforms, helmets, etc like infantry regiment 115, 116 etc...

    In my opinion, the prussian cockade on the field cap of the 11 Train Btl is perfectly correct

    Best regards

    Hervé

  8. #8

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Herve...good call old boy, you are absolutely correct ! Prussian line wappens on their Pickelhaubes as well...I had completely forgotten about that anomaly ! so Anton, you just need to find a matching Reichs cockade to finish it off....quite an easy call really !
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    I had just finished changing the Kokardes when I saw the latest post. Into the turnip field, out of the turnip field!

    Anton

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hessian mutze?

    Quote by AntonEbans View Post
    I had just finished changing the Kokardes when I saw the latest post. Into the turnip field, out of the turnip field! Anton
    My fault Anton, sorry.....
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

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