1914 Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse Deumer Real or Fake

[Chrish124]

I purchased this Iron Cross first class as it appears to be a WW2 made version, by Deumer. I had been looking for a WW2 manufactured version of a WW1 Cross to display with my Deumer Spange. The beading, frame, Crown etc. all seemed to match the Pin Back version shown in Dietrich Maertz's book and the 1939 Deumers in my collection. Once I received the cross however I noted the lack of a anti-rotation pin, which I inexplicably didn't realize prior to purchase. I don't know if Deumer made Anti-Rotation pin-less crosses, or maybe they were short on frames, and had to use a frame from a regular pin-back, explaining the lack of pin hole. I am a little stumped here and have not been able to find an answer, so any help from people more knowledgeable than I, would be greatly appreciated.

Dimensions: 43.6mm (approx.)
Weight: 15.45g (Cross), 4.00g (Disk), 19.46g (Assembled)
Magnetic: Yes
Vaulted: Factory Vaulted
Markings: None

[rbminis]

The only thing I can offer is that the crown and frame do not match my example of a Deumer EK II that I have in my collection.
They may have used more than one core, but I doubt, (it is possible), if they had more than one frame die.
Ralph.

[Chopperman]

I'm not sure about this one. I am going to send out a few emails
to get an answer.

The fact that it does not have a anti-rotation pin does not bother
me. Most Deumer screwbacks I have seen do not have one.

However Ralph makes a good point about the frame. All of the
examples I have seen of known Deumers have pointed inner
frame corners. Yours are very much not pointed. I wonder
if your cross might be made by S-L.

I have never really liked this style of cross and therefore never
really studied them in detail so I have to ask for help with this one.

[Chrish124]

That is a nice looking cross Ralph.

[rbminis]

That is a nice looking cross Ralph.

Thank you Chris.
I hope this helps.
Ralph.

[Chrish124]

Thank you both for the information. I was especially unsure about the missing anti-rotation pin.

Based on what I have found in the reference books, it appears as though Deumer (and many others) made Iron Crosses in the TR era, with WW1 style cores, using WW2 style frames. Presumably for WW1 vets. Based on that it seems that the Iron Cross in question would not have the narrower frame and pointier inner beading corners as the example Ralph posted.

[Chrish124]

As for the question of the maker, as I said the die flaws and shape of the beading appear to be a closer match to the Deumers in my collection, and also seem to match up with this Pin-Back TR era cross noted in Dietrich Maertz's book.

[Chrish124]

The Reason I think it is a Deumer and not an S&L is when you compare a Deumer, an S&L and the Cross in question side by side. The Deumer is on the left, the S&L on the right. When you compare the Cross in question with the Deumer, they both have flatter, duller beads that seem to be the same. The S&L has much sharper, defined beads.

Of course, this is all just my amateur research, I am not claiming any of this as proven fact.

[Chopperman]

Your research appears to be spot on.
I emailed your pictures to someone that I trust very much with these crosses
and he confirmed to me that it is indeed a Deumer made cross.

Probably war time ww2 made in comparison to the earlier made cross
that Ralph posted.

[Chrish124]

Thank you for taking the time to follow up on that. It is helpful having some verification to make sure my research is on the right track.