Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 12 of 107 FirstFirst ... 289101112131415162262 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 1064

Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

Article about: Steve: Thanks for the follow-up on Mont Alto. It looks like Prusse was probably the engineer superintendent of construction on both the Deutschland and the Bremen. His official designation i

  1. #111

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Very interesting Claas. In which compass direction and during what time frame would the vessel have been travelling upon the Weser on its way to Bremen? I ask this since the Sun's light appears to be coming from left side of the image and more toward the foreground than from behind. The lighting would have been perfect for an afternoon trip south out of Baltimore. If there were other vessels around (besides the one taking the picture ) this could help clear up a lot of doubt.

    OK! I'm pulling out all of the stops... can you read the headline on one of the front pages of the newspapers? >only kidding<
    Last edited by STBaltimore; 02-23-2012 at 08:20 PM. Reason: I hit the send button too soon?

  2. #112

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    STBaltimore: I have that same postcard and you're right, it does seem that the jumper antenna is absent. However, it's clearly eveident in several other photos of the U-Deutschland on hie first and second trips (see Class's photo above). The jumper antenna was a short-range antenna that was normally used to communicate with friendly vessels in relatively close proximity. The U-Deutschland used hers to monitor British fleet traffic while still inside the so-called danger zone while leaving British waters, and again when entering the American security zone. The idea was that if they could copy radio traffic, even if they couldn't understand it, the enemy was fairly close. Rigging the long-range antenna was a time-consuming process and was done only when far out in the Atlantic, and inside US territorial waters. She rigged hers approaching the US Coast to notify Naunen that she had made it.

    Claas: Good call on the boat's location. That explains the papers some of them are carrying. Dwight

  3. #113

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    In paragraph eight on page 174 under the heading of News From the Harbors within The Master, mate and pilot, Volume 7 Number 6 November 1914, By National Organization of Masters, Mates, and Pilots of America, the E. Clay TIMANUS is listed as a quarantine tug

  4. #114

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tug Timmins.jpg 
Views:	625 
Size:	209.4 KB 
ID:	311535
    STBaltimore: The tug referred to as the Timmins, is actually the Thomas F. Timmons which the Hilken Brothers bought for the Eastern Forwarding Company, the Baltimore front for the whole Deutsche Ozean Reederei project. The EFCO on the stack, which the press often confused with the tug's real name, stood for Eastern Forwarding Co. The name Thomas J. Timmins is on the stern of the tug in the photo above, but the quality of the post probably makes it impossible to read. Are you saying that this boat is actually the quarantine boat, Timanus? If so, they are two different vessels.
    Last edited by drmessimer; 02-23-2012 at 10:09 PM.

  5. #115

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    While we are on the subject of annalyzing some of these photos, take a look at this one from the German language edition of König's book (which he actually didn't write).
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	flags 3.jpg 
Views:	626 
Size:	267.5 KB 
ID:	311536
    Keep in mind that this shot is taken off the port quarter looking forward. Now look at the caption and tell me what's wrong. The corresponding shot in the English language edition makes the same mistake. Dwight
    .Click image for larger version. 

Name:	amer. flags.jpg 
Views:	246 
Size:	218.8 KB 
ID:	311543

  6. #116

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Isn't it interesting to understand how land lubbers perceive the movement of vessels simply on account of the direction the wind might be blowing flags at the time a photo is captured? Then again, we have to give these would-be-sailors a break. Admittedly, U-Deutschland's stern is as pretty and curvy as a stem might be.
    Last edited by STBaltimore; 02-24-2012 at 03:27 AM. Reason: correcting sentence structure

  7. #117

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Quote by drmessimer View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tug Timmins.jpg 
Views:	625 
Size:	209.4 KB 
ID:	311535
    STBaltimore: The tug referred to as the Timmins, is actually the Thomas F. Timmons

    Are you saying that this boat is actually the quarantine boat, Timanus? If so, they are two different vessels.
    The vessel I am thinking 'might' be the E. CLAY TIMANUS is the white superstructured tug in your Quarantine Point image.

    Now for EFCO and the THOMAS F. TIMMINS:

    We know that U-DEUTSCHLAND, as warped into her Baltimore moorings by the Tug THOMAS F. TIMMINS, was assisted by a small gasoline or diesel motor launch (shown to the right of the sub in your Preparing to Dock at Baltimore image) named EFCO (later as the USS EFCO, the launch was in service during America's participation in the Great War (1917-1918).
    ____________________________________
    June 3, 1909 Mutual Co. has purchased [tugboat] GEO. H. ALLEN, JR. and will rename her THOMAS F. TIMMINS.
    ___________________________________
    From an article dated Norfolk, Va., August 19th 1916, it appears that the Eastern Forwarding Company's tugboat THOMAS F. TIMMINS had just been re-named the HANSA.

    Thomas F. Timmins, president of the Croton Water Company seems to have gotten his wish to disassociate himself with the now-famous merchant submarine DEUTSCHLAND - except perhaps in the newsreels and the news print media of the day and in the pages of Captain Paul Konig's 1916 account entitled: "Voyage of the DEUTSCHLAND", which, is still available from the United States Naval Institute. The original 1916 account today is second only to Dwight Messimer's excellent 1988 study: Merchant U-Boat: Adventures of the Deutschland, 1916-1918. Sorry Dwight but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
    ____________________________________________
    Edward F. Timmins, of the New York Produce Exchange, former owner of the tugboat THOMAS F. TIMMINS, which conveyed the Submarine Freighter DEUTSCHLAND into the piers at Baltimore, during the first-ever solo crossing of the Atlantic by such a vessel in July 1916, said that he had sent a telegram to her present owners, the Eastern Forwarding Company of Baltimore, informing them that a new tug belonging to his firm had just been named the THOMAS F. TIMMINS (see lineage below) , after the founder of the towing company. Incidentally, one of the Timmins' other tugboats in New York Harbor was the BRITANNIA.
    ________________________________________
    On July 14th, 1916, Thomas F. Timmins, president of the Croton Water Company, 59 Pearl Street, New York City, retained an attorney in hopes of filing suit against the Eastern Forwarding Company (EFCo) of Baltimore, in order to compel them to change the name of their Tug THOMAS F. TIMMINS. "We don't want to be mixed up in any U-boat notoriety", Timmins said as a reason for filing his grievance. "It's a matter of personal feeling", as he happened to be pro-Ally saying, "I don't want any boat with my name to go out helping a German submarine or anything else German.
    ________________________________________________
    The EFCO's THOMAS F. TIMMINS served as the Subsea Merchantman DEUTCHLAND'S escort in and out of Chesapeake Bay receiving a quick overhaul and minor repairs in drydock at Charles L. Rhodes & Sons, Co., Canton, during the submarine's cargo swap at the EFCo's Locust Point Andre Street pier.
    ______________________________________________
    .... *Geo. H. Allen, Jr.* 201955. Wooden single screw tug built 1904 at
    Athens, NY, (by W. O. Ford?). 85.6 x 20.6 x 9.7; 99 gt, 67 nt; compound steam engine, 15-30 x 26, 344-ihp. Later **Thomas F. Timmins,* *Hansa,* *Hopewell,* and *Hilton.*... She became *Hilton* owned by Eastern Transportation Co. in the '30s, and eventually found her way to the, Hilton Towing & Marine Co. Brooklyn, NY, in the '40s. She is listed as "dismantled" in 1955.

    Rather than in silent repose beneath the waters of the Christiana River in Delaware, she
    was probably unceremoniously discarded at Witte's at Staten Island...

    William Lafferty
    Wright State University
    ___________________________________________
    At some point a whole bunch of wooden hulled tugs were taken out of Wittes and beached south of Sharrott's Road....where their festering remains can be seen at low water even today.
    Jeffrey Schurr
    ___________________________________________
    A barge was placed outboard of the DEUTSCHLAND, as part of a protective sabotage barrier. It was not the B.S. FORD as I had previously thought. A photograph published in Dwight’s history on the DEUTSCHLAND shows that it was named GEORGE MAY.

    The MAY was said to have been constructed in Philadelphia during the 1890's and was still in service at least during the 20's and perhaps into the mid-to-late 30's.

    Would anyone know if the GEORGE MAY ended her career in the Delaware River, or, like the THOMAS F. TIMMINS, wound up on Staten Island at Whitt's or another such scrap/graveyard.

    Merchant Vessels of the United States, with Official Numbers and Signal Letters… for the Year Ending June 30, 1918, GPO 1919., listed the THOMAS F. TIMMINS on page 168. This ‘new’ TIMMINS was formerly the tug JAMES A. WALSH

    On page 117, of the same work, we find the tug HOPEWELL, formerly the HANSA, earlier the THOMAS F. TIMMINS, and originally the GEORGE H. ALLEN jr., launched in 1904.

    Hope this helps.
    STBaltimore
    Last edited by STBaltimore; 02-24-2012 at 03:57 AM.

  8. #118

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Quote by STBaltimore View Post
    Very interesting Claas. In which compass direction and during what time frame would the vessel have been travelling upon the Weser on its way to Bremen? I ask this since the Sun's light appears to be coming from left side of the image and more toward the foreground than from behind. The lighting would have been perfect for an afternoon trip south out of Baltimore. If there were other vessels around (besides the one taking the picture ) this could help clear up a lot of doubt.

    OK! I'm pulling out all of the stops... can you read the headline on one of the front pages of the newspapers? >only kidding<
    STBaltimore: U-Deutschland arrived Helgoland Harbour 23.08.16 at 1.00 PM. In the morning of the 24th August he leaves Helgoland and arrived at the mouth of the Weser in the early afternoon, where U-Deutschland rested for the night. In the morning of the 25th the trip to Bremen started again, with the general direction was south, and U-Deutschland arrived around noon the port of Bremen. The lighting was perfect for a pre noon trip south up to Bremen. No other boats detectecd, sorry.

    But here is the newspaper:



    All doubts removed?

    Regards
    Claas

  9. #119

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Indeed. Danke!

  10. #120

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Quote by drmessimer View Post
    While we are on the subject of annalyzing some of these photos, take a look at this one from the German language edition of König's book (which he actually didn't write).
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	flags 3.jpg 
Views:	626 
Size:	267.5 KB 
ID:	311536
    Keep in mind that this shot is taken off the port quarter looking forward. Now look at the caption and tell me what's wrong. The corresponding shot in the English language edition makes the same mistake. Dwight
    .Click image for larger version. 

Name:	amer. flags.jpg 
Views:	246 
Size:	218.8 KB 
ID:	311543
    The analyses continue... as in the image below:



    The landlubbers or editors, whichever publish first, would have an easier time distinguishing the bow from the stern - or the front from the back as it were, in her August 1916 port arrival sepia image. However, how does one reconcile gaining a port side anchor between Chesapeake Bay and her arrival? Perhaps the unaccounted-for passage days were spent in an undisclosed shipyard? >wink<

Similar Threads

  1. 12-19-2011, 12:26 PM
  2. NSKK Random Artifacts

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    06-18-2011, 05:48 PM
  3. Buried artifacts in Europe from WWII

    In Battlefield history and relics
    06-09-2011, 08:20 AM
  4. 12-17-2009, 03:54 PM
  5. Himmler capture artifacts: his shaving gear

    In SS Uniforms and insignia
    10-28-2009, 07:55 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •