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Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

Article about: Steve: Thanks for the follow-up on Mont Alto. It looks like Prusse was probably the engineer superintendent of construction on both the Deutschland and the Bremen. His official designation i

  1. #161

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    STBaltimore: Thanks for posting that clip. I wish there was a way, without violating copyright, to assemble all the available movie footage of the boat in Baltimore, and making it available. You're right that none of the crew went to the White House, but that six did get in to see FDR. They were pleasantly surprised when he spoke to them in German. I don't know how fluent he was, but it certainly impressed the six sailors. Dwight

  2. #162

    Wink Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model


    As much as I am a fan of the Deutschland and Bremen and find them as captivating as everybody else on this website, it is important to remember that they were used during a war for war purposes. In Robert Koenig’s book, The fourth Horseman, One man's mission to Wage the Great war in America (copyright 2006, ISBN: 1– 58648– 372 –2); he talks about the sabotage activities the Deutschland was involved in the United States. The book is primarily about an American Dr. with German ancestors who during World War I uses a virus called glanders and anthrax germs to kill American horses on the way to Britain for use in the war. Thousands of horses were killed this way, long before they ever made to the front lines. On page 160 the author talks about how the Deutschland delivered fresh cultures of glanders and anthrax germs to a germ factory six mile from the White House. He also goes on to talk about how the Deutschland carried incendiary pencils for sabotage at munitions factories. The incendiary pencils were sort of like an explosive timing device, like blasting caps with a chemical timer I would think. If anyone out there can find more information on these exploding pencils I would love to know about it. The explosive pencils were most likely used in the sabotage efforts at Black Tom outside of New York City. Black Tom was a railroad yard that one night in 1916 blue sky high. Fragments from the explosion dented the Statue of Liberty and pieces of metal rain down on Manhattan. The explosion killed seven men. Since United States was not at war with Germany at the time; this was not an act of war, it was an act of murder. He goes on to say Hinsch was the sabotage master in the United States, and that Hilken and was also involved. Lord only knows what kind of surprises the Bremen had on board. If I remember correctly, and please forgive me if I don't, the millions of dollars generated by selling the Deutschland’s cargo were to be used to conduct sabotage operations in the United States. These were desperate men, and desperate men do bad things. The book does not say whether the captain or crew new what type of sabotage equipment they were carrying to a neutral country. The book was a fascinating read, and the Deutschland is mentioned several times. Dwight's book introduces many of the main characters involved in the whole Deutschland trading operation. In Robert Koenig's book, he talks about how the same people were involved up to their necks in sabotage operations around the United States. The two books complement each other quite nicely.

    Troy I am sorry about posting the postcards, but time and time again I have watched other people post stuff that I would've posted, so it all works out in the end. You are in luck; I am nearly out of Deutschland and Bremen pictures. With that said I will warn you, I did save the best for last. This stuff is so big I have to photograph it with a digital camera and download the pictures, a scanner will not work. I'm going to try to get to it this weekend. The most important thing is that we all share. Since this thread was started, there have been at least three rediscoveries of information that had been lost to the ages.

    Dwight, since I corresponded with you last several years ago, I have collected every written piece of information I could get my hands on concerning the Deutschland and Bremen (written in English). I have also gathered up anything I could find on German World War I U-boats in general. Like I said in my first post on this thread, I have had so much fun getting to this point. With that said, I think we could probably calculate where the Bremen sank. Please give me some time to get my notes and charts together and I think we might be able to come up with a good location. If anyone can come up with a cargo manifest for the U-Bremen, now would be a good time! This adventure is about set sail! It's getting late for tonight gentlemen I will catch up with you over the weekend.


    P.S. Dwight, we will get the engine figured out as soon as I get the book and can compare notes.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Steve: I haven't read Robert Koenig’s book, The fourth Horseman: One man's mission to Wage the Great war in America but I will order a copy in the morning. Thanks for posting that. Your optimism is impressive regarding the possibility of determining the Bremen's resting place. I'm looking forward to reading what you have on the subject. Dwight

  4. #164

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Hi Steve, I had not heard about any of this before being from the UK: very interesting!

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  5. #165

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    Hi Steve, I had not heard about any of this before being from the UK: very interesting!

    Cheers, Ade.
    Hey, Ade. I second that.
    Steve, Thanks for the info on.. The Fourth Horseman. I just ordered a copy. I can't wait to see what you have for us. Welcome to the forum!


  6. #166

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Beware of sensationalism. Here's a seventy-three year old sampling of it:

    "The Eastern Forwarding Company was organized by Paul Hilken in Baltimore
    in the spring of 1916. It had the same officers as the partners in Schumacher
    and Company, which was the company representing the North German Lloyd
    in Baltimore. It was formed for the purpose of taking care of the American end
    of the shipping business in connection with the operation of commercial submarines
    between Germany and this country [America]. While it has always been claimed
    by Hinsch that the operations of this company were distinct from sabotage, it is
    also true that with Paul Hilken, the Vice-President, and Hinsch, the General
    Manager, it was impossible to disassociate their activities as sabotage agents
    from their activities in connection with the company."

    Lehigh Valley Railroad Company, Agency of Canadian Car and Foundry Company, Limited, and Various Underwriters (United States) v. Germany. (Sabotage Cases) 15 June 1939 VOLUME VIII pp. 225-460 Decisions p. 353

    Especially dwell on the line, "... it was impossible to disassociate their activities as sabotage agents from their activities in connection with the company." and understand that Paul Hilken, Vice-President of The Eastern Forwarding Company, was never found guilty - even by association.

    Again, please beware of sensationalism posing as legal fact. Just because an author may have included a passage supported by a documented source doesn't necessarily make it factual.

    Reputations are won and lost on an author's choice of facts - so are 'intentionally led' wild goose chases.


  7. #167

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    As the U-DEUTSCHLAND did carry a single copy of a new diplomatic code on her second trip to the United States we might be interested in following threads at der Wecker, a German American discussion forum for the Baltimore Washington corridor.

    This new code, which produced the Zimmerman Telegram, proved to tip the scales in a strained relationship between German and the already allied-leaning United States. Especially related threads of interest can be found at der Wecker (the alarm clock)

  8. #168

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Here's one prior to the lettering DEUTSCHLAND being painted on her side.

    Anyone aware if there are any known images showing her various stages of demise in Smith's breaker yards?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #169

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    STBaltimore: That is correct. The new code was 0075 which replaced 13040. The problem was that von Bernstorff in Washington had the new 0075 where as the old code, 13040 was still being used in Mexico. The result was that Bernstorff received the Zimmermann Telegram in 0075 and had to re-encode it in 13040 to forward it to the German ambassador in Mexico. The British had already broken 13040 so when von Bernstorff forwarded the telegram, the British read it and later released it to the US press. Dwight

  10. #170

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Hello everbody,

    U-Bremen is back. Very interesting thread. A lot of new informations.

    Steve: I will explain the stamps to you as exactly as I can with me small English. Please be patient, that takes a cup of time.

    Here is a nice picture showing the Deutschland from an intersting angle:

    By the way: U-Deutschland has the exhaust on the left side at the aft. The hull was getting dirty. And I still remember me to read somewhere that this is the reason to paint the smal part of the aft black. If this is really done only on the Deutschland... well, the I have maybe a picture of the Bremen in Helgoland. First I have to figure out the place taken this picture:

    Why are there no pictures of the Deutschland and the Bremen together in the port of Helgoland? No pictures of König and Schwartzkopf in Helgoland.
    U-Bremen was in the port of Helgoland when the Deutschland arrived. No welcome-picture was taken. Why not. To hide the Bremen trip? Qustions over questions.


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