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Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

Article about: Steve: Thanks for the follow-up on Mont Alto. It looks like Prusse was probably the engineer superintendent of construction on both the Deutschland and the Bremen. His official designation i

  1. #261

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Steve et al: U-boats didn't carry scuttling charges. If the boat was at sea they simply opened the sea-cocks. If they were stranded, they improvised with torpedo warheads or whatever they had on hand. As for scheduled radio transmissions, the practice was to report departure from harbor (Helgoland) and then noon positions, unless something else came up. Regarding NDL records; yes, I did contact them and was told that all their records were destroyed in WWI due to Allied bombing. Steve, you are correct that the Bremen's disappearance is one of those without any clue--just like the "Bermuda Triangle" disappearances. But the fact is, at sea, those things happen. Dwight

  2. #262

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    I suppose it might be about time to knock on Paul Gannon's door and ask if he'd show us around the inside of Room 40 files.

    Paul recently spoke to a group during a 'flagship' event at the University of Liverpool. Here's a writeup on the presentation.

    You'll have to scroll down the page in order to read material that applies to Room 40 and our interests.

    Knock, knock?

  3. #263

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Steve, et al: When I wrote, "U-boats didn't carry scuttling charges" in the previous post, I meant that they didn't carry them for the purpose of scuttling their own boat, though they could have been used for that if necessary. The scuttling charges they carried were for sinking the vessels they stopped and sank under the prize regulations. Dwight

  4. #264

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Here is something for all of you. I think I have told your earlier that I have a book by Hartmut Schwerdtfeger and Erik Herlyn, Die Handels-U-Boote Deutschland und Bremen, that was published in 1997. It's a thin book, 144 pages, and completely without source citations or bibliography. On page 116 they say that the U-Bremen sent two radio messages after departing Helgoland. The first was sent as she passed through the German picket-boat line and the second was sent as she neared the Orkney Islands. If that's true, then those messages were sent during the period 26-31 August, and Schwartzkopf elected to take the short route through the 10th Cruiser Squadron's "C" line.

    That surpises me because I have always assumed that the U-Deutschland used the longer more northerly route to avoid the 10th Cruiser Squadron, and König passed that information on to Schwartzkopf when they met in Helgoland. But according to Schwerdtfeger and Herlyn, Schwartzkopf left Helgoland knowing he was going to take the short route and had a prearranged code to use to report his approach to the Orkneys. All that leads me to believe that König used the short route out-bound too.

    I have asked Claas to help me track down the author, Hartmut Schwerdtfeger so that I can ask him about some of the things he said in the book. Dwight

  5. #265

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Any idea where, in early post-war England, this image of the U-155 (earlier U-DEUTSCHLAND) might have been taken?

    Can you tell that the rear of the turret (conning tower) had been somewhat widened from its original freighter configuration to allow for easy passage from the main deck up into the sail's interior space?

  6. #266

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Great thread ! Very interesting

    Regards from Norway

  7. #267

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    I agree with your sentiments JT. This has become a great thread. Our thanks go to Dwight who began it. While we're speaking of threads....

    Might there be an extant Norddeutscher Lloyd (Deutschen Ozean Reederei) D.O.R oval cloth flag cap badge in a museum or other collection that we can use as a digital close-up thread study, or are they somewhat as rare as hen's teeth or the current chart fix on the U-BREMEN?


  8. #268

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    It's in London on display as a war trophy in November or early December 1919. Here she is going up the Thames approaching Tower Bridge
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    These two were taken in the same place that the one STBaltimore posted. Dwight

  9. #269

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    STBaltimore: Regarding the DOR hat badge, It's hard to say how many were made, but the number has to be very small. If I could find a company that makes pins and badges, I would ask what it would cost to have several made. We have the great photo that Claas posted as an example, and I have the officer's hat from which we could determine the size. If anyone as a suggestion about whom to contact, let me know. Dwight

  10. #270

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    It was a long shot with scuttling charges. I am running out of ideas. At least we are pretty sure U-Bremen took the short route now. That is a plus for our side. I hope you and Claas can get in contact with the author of the book, that just might get us somewhere. I think all I have left is the radio transmissions and G.13.
    As far as the NDL records are concerned,..bugger…..

    If you think you can contact Paul Gannon and get his help, all I can say is go for it!!! I will hang fire.
    The deck guns on the U-155 were huge. I wonder why they took them off so quick after the war. I would have thought they’d make a great tourist attraction?
    What post can I find the picture of a DOR hat badge? If it is a needle and thread type badge, I know people that make these for a living.

    Great pictures by the way!

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