Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

[Adrian Stevenson]

If I had time guys, I would happily do it for you.

Cheers, Ade.

[STBaltimore]

How about if we asked the skipper of the HMS BELFAST to write you up an excuse so that you wouldn't have to go on that old cruise? That way you could exchange that yucky sea-salt air for some nice paper decaying scent laced with a tinge of 1916 paper making sulfuric acid. I'm confident that they'd throw in a bit of dust as garnishment. There are more places to rock-n-roll beside having a pitching and yawing deck beneath your feet, Comrade Stevenson.

See you in the pew on Easter Sunday

[drmessimer]

Here is another photo of the U-155 at St. Katherine Docks in November-December 1918. The three sources I have differ as to the size of her deck guns. Herzog and Rössler say thay were 150mm X 45 whereas Gröner says they were 105mm X 45. My guess is that the figure Gröner provides is a typo. Dwight

[Jensen]

Hello

It's a very interesting thread you have started here. I have some photos to add.



Here is "Oldenburg" that also was planned to be a "Handels-Uboot"

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U-Deutschland

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U 155 sinking the italien auxillery cruiser "Sterope" 7.4.1918

Regards
Jensen

[Steve Zuke]

STB,
I go away for a day and this thread grows two pages! I hope that’s not a hint.
I see your problem with the hat badge. We need a high resolution picture for this one. We can work on this problem.

Dwight,
It is best you deal with the radio intercepts. If I got them, I would only pass them on to you anyhow because I can’t read German. I will take care of emailing the British National Archive next week and ask them about G.13’s log for the time in question. That should be in English I hope. If I understand it correctly there are three archives that make up the National Archive. The main one is in Kew and the other two are not in London. Forgive me, I am sure you know this but some of the other readers may not.

Ade,
You’re supposed to be cutting my grass with your new mower, not digging through archives. However,…..

Jensen,
Thank you for the pictures! There great! It seems like every time I think, “that’s got to be it” some pulls more out of a hat. I hope this trend it last for a long time.

Happy Easter everyone, I will catch up with you next week.
Steve

[drmessimer]

Jensen: Thanks for posting those interesting photos. Do you have any information about what is happening in the Oldenburg photo? She became U-151, survived the war, and was turned over to the French who used her for a target off Cherbourg on 7 June 1921. Dwight

[drmessimer]

I offer you this piece of information without vouching for it's accuracy, which I will explain. Here it is. It is increasingly starting to appear that the U-Bremen was lost somewhere in the waters around the Orkney Islands. The latest suggestive source is Erich Gröner (1901-1965). Gröner used his own in-house "code" to create abbreviations for certain types of information he provided in Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe, 1815-1945. He wrote this regarding the U-Bremen: "( . . 16) als Handels-Uboot. Ende 1916 i. D.; auf erster Fahrt Anfang 1917 verschollen in den Gewässern der Orkney-Inseln" That translates to [(. . 16) = sometime in 1916]; [i.D.; = put into service]; [auf erster Fahrt Anfang 1917 verschollen in den Gewässern der Orkney-Inseln = On first trip at the beginning of 1917 went missing and presumed lost in the waters around the Orkney Islands].

Gröner is normally an unquestionable source, but he was human, and all humans make mistakes. But why did he make this mistake? He was a guy who had unfettered access to every scrap of paper that had anything to do with the German Navy from 1815 to 1945, yet he apparently didn't know when the U-Bremen went into service, nor did he (apparently) know that her maiden voyage started on 26 August 1916, not "at the start of 1917." Similar to "where there's smoke there's fire," I believe that if a statement includes an obvious error, it's possible that the entire statement is in error. That is especially true of unattributed statements, even from otherwise reliable sources such as Gröner. Never-the-less, Two sources have said that the boat was in the waters off the Orkney Islands, one (Gröner) stating that it vanished in that area and the other (Schwerdtfeger and Herlyn) stating that the boat's last transmission was from that area. I don't doubt either source because given the nature of the information we have, those claims are reasonable and might even be probable. But they aren't certain. Of the suggested possible causes for her loss, the only two that I think are plausible and probable are that she suffered a diving accident or hit a floating mine. Dwight

[Jensen]

Hi Dwight

I was told that she had a collision with the british destroyer "Parthian" 12.10.1917. But I don't have any sources for this information. Maybe it is mentioned in the KTB.

Regards
Jensen

[drmessimer]

Jensen: I have never heard that one with regard to the U-Bremen's disappearance. But I have this extraordinary photograph taken just a week ago in Honolulu Harbor. Clearly, the U-Bremen was discovered adrift in the Pacific nearly 100 years after she vanished. As you can see, she is badly bleached from sun and salt. The talk is that she will be turned into a cruise ship. This might support Steve's theory that she was hi-jacked and her cargo sold, after which she was cast adrift. Dwight

[STBaltimore]

I ...the U-Bremen was lost somewhere in the waters around the Orkney Islands. The ... only two [causes] that I think are plausible and probable are that she suffered a diving accident or hit a floating mine. Dwight

I was thinking the same thing. The U-DEUTSCHLAND experienced a malfunction of one or both of her manometers during a test dive in Chesapeake Bay, something about mud clogging a tube or such. Might such have also plagued the U-BREMEN? And then there is also the possibility of sea water entering and mixing with battery to form gases while she was submerged during a malfunction.