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Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

Article about: Steve: Thanks for the follow-up on Mont Alto. It looks like Prusse was probably the engineer superintendent of construction on both the Deutschland and the Bremen. His official designation i

  1. #471

    Cool Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model


    The Centennial Committee is running down some leads on post-war accounts, made some rediscoveries of old film footage from an American company that documented the DEUTSCHLAND'S return to Bremen and a few other things we'd like to save for sharing during the 100th. Who knows, there may even be some BREMEN footage laced in the mix we come up with too! Wouldn't that be a hoot?

    If I'm not mistaken, I think that Zuke got some schtuff from the Room 40 files that has to be further analyzed and yes, theories are being bantered back and forth. Hope that answers your question.

  2. #472

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model


    I am sorry that you and Dwight could not make it to Philadelphia. It was a blast. However, looking over the forum for the last couple of weeks I clearly see that there are still a lot of souvenirs out there that nobody's ever seen. All of these pieces are truly amazing and I love that have them in my collection. But alas, I am not that wealthy. I am sorry, the reason I've been keeping quiet is because I've had nothing to add to the conversation.

    Back to the question of what happened to the U-Bremen. Several months ago I sent three of my minions over to England in a packing crate to steal the logbook for the HMS Mantua (one of the ships I have listed in post number 224 as possibly ramming the U-Bremen). My three minions (Curly, Larry, and Moe) broke into the National Archives sometime after midnight, and quickly found the logbooks for the ship in question. They carefully double checked my instructions (to make sure they would get it right) for the time period in question and then proceeded to meticulously photograph, using a very high resolution camera, the wrong date anyway. They put all the material back in the right places, carefully left no traces, climbed back out the window, and reset the alarm. It took me two months to track them down, explain their error, and set up another break in. This time everything went perfectly. However, after a job well done they decided to do a pub crawling through London. And after a comedy of errors that would have made William Shakespeare loose bladder control; involving a goat, a misplaced stun gun, the Londonís tube system, and a bottle of Absinthe it ended up taking over two weeks for the drunken sods to make it home and give me the disk. Upon carefully going over the data, it would seem the HMS Mantua was most likely in port at the time of its supposed encounter with the U- Bremen. There is no mention in its logbook of striking any underwater object. I sent copies of the logbook to Dwight and STBaltimore to verify my findings because the person writing the logbook wrote it out in script. His penmanship was impeccable, but in this modern day and age I see so little of this type of writing anymore I was having a hard time trying to read it. Yes, it's very embarrassing... So it looks like we can close the book on scenario number three. That was the last documented possibility that could be verified. Unless somebody can come up with a better documented explanation, I think I am going to stick with space aliens and Bigfoot. This works out much better as a plot line for my book anyway.

    As far as where the U-Bremen sank, ST Baltimore and I have come up with two possibilities, both of which put the U-boat on the other side of the Orkney Islands. Dwight had said he read in a book (and I think we may have a quote somewhere in this forum) that the last radio broadcast received from the U-Bremen stated that they were in sight of the Orkney Islands. If this were true we know how fast she could steam on the surface over a 24-hour period, and if she was making radio contact on a daily basis at the same time each day, we know we're she should have been the following day. Since she didn't make contact the next day, that position would've been the end point for search. So this would've put the U-Bremen's location in two possible long skinny rectangles on the chart (depending on whether she went above or below the Orkneys).

    In order to narrow this down even further, Dwight was looking into having some of his minions go through Room 40's radio records for the time in question and see if any positions were triangulated for intercepted messages from the U-Bremen. This is a much more daunting task and requires many more minions, or one minion and a hell of a long time to sift through all the data. By the Way, Dwight how are things going on this particular tangent?

    The other thing that could possibly be done to narrow it down even further is contacting Capt. Konig's daughter, whom I am told is still alive. She may be able to tell us just which way the U-Deutschland sailed around the Orkney Islands, since the logbooks for the U- Deutschland were destroyed in a World War II bombing. Claas, I think Dwight might have her telephone number can we possibly persuade you to give her phone call? Maybe show up at her door with a box of chocolates?

    Best of luck,

    PS- I am still trying to figure out how the goat fit into the story.

  3. #473

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Steve: Those are terricic posts and photos. You guys obviously had a great time, and I am looking forward to reading the ideas and theories about the Brenen's disappearence that you developed. Dwight

  4. #474

    Lightbulb Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    In 1721 the Russians supposedly built the first submarine. They called it a "Hidden Boat". Tests didn't go as they had hoped so, as the story goes, they sold it to the Germans for re-use.

    Attachment 406853

    I can only imagine what the Germans did with it.

    Please note that I fabricated the entire story excepting the first two sentences (and maybe the third) but I don't care or regret doing so as it has caused my spirits to rise and I hope the attachment has made you smile.

  5. #475

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    STBaltimore: Try posting the photo again. It didn't work for me. Thanks. Dwight

  6. #476

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Sorry it's taken me so long to get back in touch with everybody. I have several interesting pieces of information to share. First, I've added more U-boat stuff to my man cave. The first picture shows the entire wall. By the way the reason the other pictures are yellow is because I had a take them without using the flash, otherwise the glare was just too strong. The next picture is a collage of U- Deutschland and U- Bremen photographs. All the photographs shown in this collage have previously been posted to this form. It just so happens I was able to get my hands on the 35mm negatives that were made from the original glass negatives. I had the devil of a time trying to track down a photo studio that could still develop 35mm negatives. Even they scan them into a computer. However, they were able to work with the images to fine tune them which was something I just could not do. The prints came out sharp and amazingly detailed. They also printed me out a large 8 x 10 of the U-Bremen that I have hanging above the collage.

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    The next picture is of a chart that Dwight sent me as a gift. There is no date on the chart but my guess is it dates back to the early 1920s. The chart is in color and very fragile, so I had the same people who developed my 35mm negatives photograph the chart and printed out a color copy of it, and that's what I have framed. The chart is in German, and shows the courses of several U-boats that were lost during World War I.

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    The next picture is a collage I have made of the blueprints of the U-Deutschland. I have finally got around to properly framing it. I also have on display some of my antique volt and amp meters. As I find more time I will hang more U-Boat stuff on my walls.

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    Luke, if you want to see any of this stuff you have to start planning your trip to Baltimore in 2016 for the anniversary of the U- Deutschland's crossing. ST Baltimore is going to try and get space available for display of everything you see hanging on my wall on board the USS Savanna. It's not going to be fun stripping my walls, packing the material, transporting it, and reassembling all the stuff in Baltimore; but I know will be appreciated.

    Meanwhile, on a slight tangent to our thread, in a private e-mail to Dwight we have been discussing hunting rifles. He mentioned that he used a military British .303 rifle years ago. Well it just so happens that I have several, and this being a war relics forum I thought I would post some pictures and try to tie into our discussion on merchant U-boats. (O.K it I am pushing it.)

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    The first picture shows three rifles. The rifle at the far right is a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk I, 1943, Long Branch, .303 cal.. I paid $80 for this rifle at Boscovísí department store in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania in 1990. I got a replacement military stock and refinished it (the original was beat), and put a shotgun recoil pad out on it. I also had 3x9 power the scope installed. I could shoot this rifle all day and not get a sore shoulder. This gun gives me a four-inch group at 100 yards. It was the first high-powered rifle I owned, and I fell in love.

    The rifle in the middle is a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk II, 1952 ,.303 cal.. I believe I have the date right, it was produced during the last production run in Britain. Right after this rifle was made the entire factory was boxed up and shipped off to Pakistan if my memory is correct. I have installed a 3x9 scope and a shotgun recoil pad on this one. Everything else is original. They had just put this rifle out on the rack at Cabelas is in Pennsylvania when I grabbed it for $150 around 2004. This gun gives me a two-inch group or less at 100 yards.

    The last rifle on the left is my favorite. It is in 1898 Springfield, Krag-JÝrgensen, .30-40 cal.. This rifle was already sporterized when I paid a little more than $200 for it at a department store in Stroudsburg Pennsylvania. The owner of the store had incorrectly marked it as a single shot rifle. At some time during its history they remove the box magazine that normally protrudes from the side and replaced it with a small trapdoor. There is a secret button to push that allows the trapdoor to come off and you load three rounds. Thus, it's been modified from a six round rifle to a four round. When I saw it, I could tell somebody had put a lot of money into making this rifle. The stock was a replacement sporter stock. Whoever did the work on this rifle originally was a master of his craft. They had removed the backs sites and put fine adjustment site on the receiver. Somewhere along the line the front sight got bent so the rifle shot way off. I took it to my local gunsmith and he realigned the site and we found the gun shot an amazing group at 100 yards. I had gunsmith build a custom scope base and install a 2x7 power pistol scope where the back site used to be, and remove the front and fine adjustment site. I had the recoil pad installed, the stock completely refinished, and all the metal re-blued with gold inlay on all the lettering. This is my baby. At 100 yards all the bullet holes are touching in a four round group. Not too bad for rifle that's 114 years old and may have saw action with Teddy Roosevelt during the Spanish-American war.

    The next picture shows three rifles. The rifle at the top is a Lee Enfield SMLE #3, 1916, .303 cal.. This is a rifle I would love to shoot, but never can. The rifle bore has such large pits in it if you were to shoot it the gun would explode. So I have disabled the gun and hung on my wall. If during World War I the U-Deutschland or U- Bremen were captured by the British Navy the U-boat crews would surely have had this rifle pointed at them.

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    The next rifle is a Russian MosinĖNagant , 1916, 7.62x54R. It has more problems than the Enfield above it and I have also disabled it. I have another one that was made in 1928 that I completely redid the stock on, installed recoil pad, and a scope. And if you were locked inside of the barn and pulled the trigger you'd miss the wall, ceiling, and floor. Yeah it's a lemon.

    The bottom rifle is an American made Enfield model P-14, 1914, .303 cal.. This is another rifle that I would love to shoot, but never can. The bore in this barrel is just too rusted. To install a replacement barrel would cost me about $800 and I just can't justify that kind of money. So once again I disabled the rifle and hung it on my wall. During World War I the British government more often than not issued this rifle to their colonial armies.

    The Luger was manufactured by Stoeger in the United States I believe sometime during the 1980s, it is 9mm, and is patterned after the World War I German naval Luger. It is made out of stainless steel and is one of the most accurate pistols I own. It feels great in your hand and is a blast to shoot. It also came with a leather flap holster. This one cost me about $900 three years ago at a gun show. I had won a high-end deer rifle in a raffle. I took the cash instead of the rifle and used it to buy the pistol.

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    This is most likely the same style pistol the U-53 would've had on board when it landed in Newport to escort the U-Bremen home. I have a book that contains photographs showing a German sailor holding just such a pistol while keeping an eye on prisoners standing on the deck of his U-boat. After World War I, as part of the conditions of the armistice, Germany had to shorten the barrels of all their long barreled pistols. An original, World War I, German naval Luger with an uncut barrel is worth thousands of dollars depending on its condition.

    Okay Dwight it's now your turn, I know your man cave must have some amazing things in it so it's time to pony up some photographs.

    Best wishes,

    P.S All functioning firearms in my house are kept in a Fort Knox Gun Safe and the house has an ADT alarm system, and I use a Remington 870 Wingmaster, 12 ga., with magazine extender and Polychoke for home defense. I just had new rugs put in the house, so please do not come here looking for free firearms. Thank you.
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  7. #477

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Steve: Wow!! That's a terrific display. I saw several gauges and instruments; could you post them individually and tell us what they are? I'll be glad to photograph and post my room, but it's small potatoes compared to yours. I will see if I can get that accomplished in the next few days, otherwise, it will have to wait until after 10 November. That is a very comfortable room you have created. Well done. Dwight

  8. #478

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model


    I will get close up pictures of the gauges for you and explanations for what they could be used for on a U-boat, but please give me some time. Several of the meters and gauges I have on display were used on American ships and submarines during WW I and II. (However, none of the one I have come from the navy.)
    Now back to the Bremen, in reference to possibility #2 in post #224 (Page 23), we have read over the log for the HMS Mantua and determined that she did not ram anything at sea let alone the U-Bremen for at least a month after the U-Bremen left port. Thus, missing her window of opportunity. However, the HMS Alsatian was also said to be involved in the ramming. It turns out the log book for the HMS Alsatian is on line at (which I think you even told me about in an email a few months ago). I was hoping that you, STBaltimore, Luke (a great place for you to help out Luke), or anyone else could read through the entries from August 26, 1916 to around September 26, 1916 and see if you can find any mention of hitting or ramming an underwater object or U-boat. My minions and I cannot read the writing no matter how hard we try. The penmanship is horrible. If anyone can decipher it, and find out any useful information please let us know. Until, next time, keep the faith.


    P.S I have no idea why the very last two photos showed up, I had deleted them earlier from the body of the text because I needed to rotate them. The next thing I know they tagged alone anyway, go figure.

  9. #479

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Looking good, Steve! I can't wait to see some close ups. Is that a U-boat decanter? That will be a great display in Baltimore. I sure don't envy you in the dismantling and moving of it, that will be a job but well worth it and it will be greatly appreciated by all that see it. I hope I can be there in 2016 to see it in person. Just checked. 300 miles to Baltimore.


  10. #480

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Steve: I did as you asked and studied the log book for the period 26 August-15 September 1916, which is the time during which the Bremen left Helgoland and was supposed to arrive in New London. From 26 to 30 August 1916, HMS Alsatian was operating along patrol line D between 54.7 and 60.4 N: 5.1 and 12.5 W. There is nothing in her log about striking an unknown object. From 31 August to 14 September she was in Liverpool. The only window of opportunity for her to have rammed the Bremen would have been between 26 and 29 August, but as I said, there is nothing like that in her log for those dates. I also checked the official history of the 10th Cruiser Squadron, E. Keeble Chatterton, Big Blockade, Hurst & Blackett, Ltd.: London, 1932 and there is no mention of a ramming that involved the HMS Alsation. Dwight

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