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Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

Article about: Steve: Thanks for the follow-up on Mont Alto. It looks like Prusse was probably the engineer superintendent of construction on both the Deutschland and the Bremen. His official designation i

  1. #541

    Wink Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Quote by drmessimer View Post
    Thanks... we now have the facts -- According to an undated and unattributed source... Claas has...

    Paul König obtain[ing] the unsold examples either from the society that had them made or from G. Krug & Sons, and it must have been in 1932 when he and his daughter were in the US.


    Not that it's necessarily a crucial bit of fact-finding but some of us would be interested in knowing why Dwight asserts that it must have been in the Winter of 1932 when, accompanied by his daughter, Mary Elizabeth, that Captain Koenig obtained the remaining mementos. Why not in the Spring of 1924 when he came across on the COLUMBUS or in the Summer of '29 aboard the BREMEN or perhaps during another of his Atlantic crossing which occurred during the Fall of 1931.

    I make the above reference from what you were to have sent to Dwight "that Paul König obtained the unsold examples" and Dwight added the year as being 1932 (that would have been in February of '32 along with Mary).

    In fact, couldn't the Hilkens, agents of A. Schumacher, have sent the 'samples' to Germany as an undeclared package? If the cremated remains of Gotthold Prusse ever made it back to German soil, they too may have gone up the accommodation ladder of a North German Lloyd steamer as unceremoniously as the 'samples' you elude to in the side letter Dwight mentions you provided him. Koenig didn't actually have to be the sole messenger for transporting the 'samples' across the sea. That is, unless your side letter to Dwight indicates otherwise.


    P.S. Many of us can not thank you both enough for the excellent photos and accompanying material you bring to this thread. Who'd a thunk this many stones would have been turned over to produce so many discoveries?
    Last edited by STBaltimore; 01-14-2013 at 06:38 AM.

  2. #542

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    StBaltimore: I wrote that Paul König took the remaining Iron Cross examples back to Germany in 1932 because I didn't know that he had made any previous postwar trips. I'm surprised that he did. Could you please post your sources for those earlier trips? That would be very useful information for me, but I have to have the source(s) to use it. Thanks.

    According to the material Claas sent me, it was Paul König who took the remaining examples back to Germany. Nothing else was suggested or even hinted at. Dwight
    Last edited by drmessimer; 01-15-2013 at 06:23 PM.

  3. #543

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Here are some photos of the U-Deutschland lapel pin, mentioned last week. Dimensions of emblem: 3/4 in. long x 1/2 in. wide. The pin may be a replacement for the button-hole fitting shown in an earlier photo.

    Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

  4. #544

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Kevin: Thanks for posting the photos. Those are much better than the photos we had earlier, and the dimensions are certainly useful. If you have anything else, please let us see them too. Thanks. Dwight

  5. #545

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    I want to share with you some of the technical aspects of the U-Deutschland-class commercial submarines. Thanks to Claas, who introduced me to Hans Techel's very informative book on the technical aspects of submarine construction at the Krupp Germaniawerft, Der Bau von Unterseeboote auf der Germaniawerft. First published in 1922, the book has gone through at least four reprints and is still available from J.F. Lehmanns Verlag. Techel was a Krupp engineer, so he had hands-on experience with the construction techniques, features, and technology of submarines at Germaniawerft during WWI.
    The design that Rudolf Erbach drew was for a cargo submarine that would be quick and cheap to build. With one exception, shown below, he avoided innovation, opting instead for simplicity and low cost. The general design profited in that respect because there were none of the weapons or anything associated with weapons involved. In fact, the conning tower, which was in all war boats designed to hold two people, had room for only one, and had only one periscope.
    Erbach also drew his boat so that existing systems could be incorporated in the construction. For example, the entire diving planes system, motors, linkage, and controls, were lifted entirely from the U-60 class boats. The propulsion engines were diesel generators chosen for their relatively small size and light weight that made more room for cargo. The diesel generators were readily available and could be delivered as soon as construction started. The engines were deliberately non-reversible to make the gearing simpler, and the boat could go astern only with her electric motors. That wasn't considered a short-change, because the dual reversing system was common in boats built by other countries other than Germany. The electric motors were also done on the easy and cheap. They were abundantly available, and very cheap, commercial motors used on freighters and liners to raise anchors.
    The one innovation was found in the battery room. The U-Deutschland-class boats had a pressure hull beam of 19 feet, which allowed Krupp to cover the batteries with a solid deck. Beneath this solid deck, they hung a powered trolley on a track that ran fore and aft. On the trolley's underside was an electric hoist that made it possible for the crewmen to lift out and service individual batteries. The cross section drawing is shown below.

    Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    There is one other feature about the design that was not so favorable. Even before the keel was laid, Krupp engineers using "calculations and experience" determined that the boat would have very poor submerged qualities. In short, she would be difficult to handle. The reason was her extreme beam compared to her length. They dismissed the finding with the expectation that the boat's handling characteristics would "work for the role she was intended to fill." In light of the near fatal experience of König and his crew on their first trip, and the disappearance of the U-Bremen on her first voyage, one has to ask if the design flaw was so easily dismissed. Dwight

  6. #546

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model


    Aloha. This is my first post to this forum. I have your book in my collection in addition to other Deutschland-related material. What I'm looking for is a crew list for the Deutschland. I've seen the picture on this site with the crew and listed signatures, but nothing else. The reason for my interest is I'm trying to track down items linking my grandfather, August Schroeder, with the Deutschland. According to family sources, my grandfather was a crewman on the Deutschland (unfortunately, he passed away when I was 8 and I never got to ask him about it). In fact, my father told me that Captain Koenig was instrumental in my grandfather, mother, and father getting their visas to come to the U.S. I do have my grandfather's Iron Cross and other decorations, along with a Cincinnati newspaper article from the 1930's mentioning his being on the Deutschland (the event was his receiving a WWI medal for valor from the Austrian government). He is not in the picture mentioned earlier and other Deutschland crew pictures don't have enough resolution for me to recognize him. Are you, or any members of this forum aware of any crew rosters. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

  7. #547

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Great first post! Sorry that I can't help you but I'm sure that a few members here can.
    Welcome to the Forum.


  8. #548

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Hello and welcome MCSchroeder,

    in my copy auf the "Musterrolle" (offical crewlist) of the Deutschland is nobody named August Schroeder or Schröder. Sorry.
    Maybe he was planned for the third trip. Or he was a crrem member of SMU 155.
    Please send me a pdf-file of the newspaper article from the 1930's mentioning his being on the Deutschland. Or you can post it here on the board. Any information (especially pictures) of anything connected with the Deutschland will be helpfull.

    Hope to here and see a lot from you and your collection.


  9. #549

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    MCSchroeder: Welcome to the thread. Below is the list showing the names of the crewmen in the photo you referred to. All of us would enjoy seeing whatever you have in your U-Deutschland collection, so when you have time, please post some photos. And if you can get a good scan of the Cincinnati newspaper article mentioned in your post, we would appreciate that too. Dwight

    Crewmen in the Photo, Alphabetically Arranged
    Albers, Albert [Machinist’s Mate]
    Born, Anton [ABS]
    Eyring, Emil [2nd Officer]
    Geilenfeld, Arthur [Radioman]
    Höfelsmann, H. [Machinist’s Mate]
    Hultsh, Erhard [Machinist’s Mate]
    Humke, Fritz [ABS]
    Kessels, W. [Proviantmeister]
    Kissling, O. [Machinist]
    Klees, H. [Chief Engineer]
    König, Paul L. [Captain]
    Krapohl, Franz [1st Officer]
    Mitterer, E. (Edward?)
    Mühle, Hans
    Müller, Wilhelm [ABS]
    Nacken, E. [ABS]
    Nagel, G. [Machinist’s Mate]
    Obeiter, Wilhelm [Mechanic]
    Pickert, Karl [ABS]
    Schneider, E. [Mechanic]
    Schwarzschild, Ludwig [Mechanic]
    Simon, T. [Cook]
    Steen, Karl [Mechanic]
    Stuck, Aldolf [Steward] sometimes spelled Stücke or Stück
    Trüchte, K [Machinist]
    Tscherner, Bruno [Mechanic]
    Wegener, Otto [Machinist]
    Zimmer, R. [Machinist’s Mate]

  10. #550

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    A Correction: In an earlier post about the design of the U-Deutschland-class boats I wrote, "The electric motors were also done on the easy and cheap. They were abundantly available, and very cheap, commercial motors used on freighters and liners to raise anchors." That is not exactly correct. They were abundantly available and cheap, but they were not specifically intended to be the power-drive on a dual anchorwindless system on comercial ships. Instead, they were commonly found commercial, double-armature, electric motors that had many ship-board applications. Dwight

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