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Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

Article about: Steve: Thanks for the follow-up on Mont Alto. It looks like Prusse was probably the engineer superintendent of construction on both the Deutschland and the Bremen. His official designation i

  1. #691

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Claaas: Thanks for posting those. I wonder why the museum has so few of the U-Deutschland arifacts? And now let me turn to an issue that Steve raised with his latest informative post regarding the postal insurance stamps. According to the informed sources he posted, it appears that the U-Deutschland carried at least some regular mail on one of her trips. I'm not sure that is exactly what the information in Steve's posts is saying, but it seems to imply that. I thought that the U-Deutschland carried only diplomatic mail on both trips because of some legal technicality regarding regular mail that was under review, but had not been resolved. I have a memorandum from the Secretary of State, Robert Lansing to the Secretary of the Treasury, William G. McAdoo, 10 July 1916, File No. 763.7211.D48-3 detailing the results of the three inspections made of the U-Deutschland under the auspices of the Department of State. In the memorandum is this quote regarding mail aboard the U-Boat: "Three sacks of mail addressed to the Kaiserliche Deutsche Botschaft sealed with the seal of the German Foreign Office with Imperial Eagle." I know that those three bags were entrusted to Franz Krapohl to deliver to the German Embassy in Washington after a row with the US Postal Service over who could legally carry the mail, even sealed diplomatic mail, within the United States. Diplomatic pouches don't carry regular mail. So what are these private letters that bear various stamps and seals? Were they actually aboard? And why aren't they mentioned in any of the Treasury customs and inspection reports, especially in the report written by Collector of the Port Ryan? I know that private packages and letters were collected in Bremen that never went aboard any of the boats for some reason having to do with their status as regular mail and not consigned cargo. I'll see what I can find as sources to answer my own question since this is a subject that I need to address in the book. In the meantime, if any of you know anything about regular mail being aboard the U-Deutschland, please post it here. Thanks. Dwight

  2. #692

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Great pics from the museum.

    Quote by Steve Zuke View Post
    The pieces of melted metal in the jewelry box, what are they?

    Looking forward to hearing what they might be too.

    The text only says 'In memory of the first journey of the Deutschland' but not what the molten bits might be.

  3. #693

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Quote by Steve Zuke View Post
    The pieces of melted metal in the jewelry box, what are they?

    Steve, that is nickel from the cargo. A little piece of paper(not shown ) give us a discribtion of what it is.


  4. #694

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    The document I cited above contains another interesting historical tidbit regarding the U-Deutschland, and one that probably applies to the U-Bremen as well. Found on board during the first day inspection were, "five revolvers, four-hundred and twenty cartridges, thirty-six rockets and blue lights, twelve gun-shots." The term "revolver" might not sound right to many of you because of the widespread belief that in WWI the Germans were armed with the Pistole 08, called the Luger by the Americans. But the fact is that the Pistole 08 (Luger) was in short supply, and the German Army and Navy drew on two early model revolvers, known collectively as the Reichsrevolver, Models M/79 and M/83, representing the years in which they were introduced. Both guns saw extensive service with the German Army and the Navy during WWI. The source for the information on the guns is, Heinrich E. Harder, Der Reichsrevolver und seine Varianten.
    Assuming that the men who inspected the U-Deutschland in Baltimore could tell the difference between a revolver and an auto-loading pistol, or at least knew what a revolver looked like no matter where it came from, the conclusion is that the five pistols aboard the U-Deutschland were either M/79's or M/83's or both. Here is what they look like. Dwight
    The M/79
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The M/83
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #695

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Thanks for posting the information on the revolvers Dwight. The last time we talked about guns on board, we did not think there were anything other than a flare gun and a line thrower. Now, thanks to you I have to start looking through the gun shows for one of these. I just picked up a Smith & Wesson 1917, .45 ACP revolver for Christmas (the minions got it for me). It shoots great and is very accurate. It thought I was done for a while. Thanks for the great pictures. If I can find the time, I will research them and let you know what I find out. Buy the way we just passed 70 pages.WOW

    Steve Zuke

    P.S Claas, great museum pictures!

  6. #696

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Claas & Steve: I found what I was looking for regarding regular mail having been carried on the U-Deutschland on either of its trips. There was no regular mail carried, only diplomatic mail. Trans-ocean mail routes were negotiated between the United States and the country which the shipping line represented. There was an agreement that covered every line that carried mail. The issues in the negotiations dealt mainly with rates to be charged. In 1916 there was no mail agreement between the United States and Germany with regard to mail being carried aboard ships belonging to the Deutsche Ozean Reederei (DOR). Therefore the U-Deutschland and the U-Bremen could not carry regular mail.
    During the period between the Baltimore trip and the New London trip, Germany and the United States opened negotiations for an agreement covering DOR, but the agreement was not reached until after the U-Deutschland had returned to Germany on 9 December 1916. By the time an agreement was reached, the cargo U-boat program was being shut down, so the agreement never went into effect. Microfilm Publication, T1022, Rolls, 658, 659, 660, PG75195; 75196; and 75197, Correspondence of the War Press office.

    My guess is that the German Post Office printed the postage stamps, the Reichsversicherungsamt printed the insurance stamps, and some office supply cranked out the Stempel, all of which became official when the agreenment was reached in December 1916. And all those letters and packages piled up until they were finally returned to the senders. Dwight

  7. #697

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    An additional photograph, not all that clear but I would think it was taken in the UK.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #698

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Gary: That's an interesting photo. Where did you find it? Dwight

  9. #699

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Hello drmessimer, I enjoy your posts on the U-Deutschland and the related artifacts, I lived in Baltimore most of my life, now live about an hour North. I have never heard of the U-Deutschland or remember seeing any display or information in the many museums in Baltimore. I have been looking in the dock area ans city antique shops for anything that's connected to the U-Deutschland, so far nothing. But I will keep you posted if anything shows up.
    Great thread.
    Nun sagen sie doch mal, wie ist es so in der Tiefe, wenn die Feind oben lauert?" - "Dunkel und still." - "Ja,wenn keiner furzt!"
    Das Boot!

  10. #700

    Default Re: Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

    Hi Dwight, This one came from a friend in Montenegro, who had it on his data base. Origin uncertain. Cheers Gary

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