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Eisernes Kreuz 2 Klasse (maker "O") - with mini stick pin

Article about: Hi all, Postman must really hate me the last few days Just received this beauty. The EKII is marked with a clear "O" on the ring - I can't find a reference to that maker though, is

  1. #11

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    Thanks Steve,
    I've got that list printed out and saved in a 3-ring binder. I should
    have taken the time to look through all of my files.
    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  2. #12

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    Thanks Walkwolf - that's the list where I found the reference to the "O" EK's.

  3. #13

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    Yeah, it's my "Go-to" list as well. 'B. SCH' or
    'R. SCH' was one of my contributions.........
    Regards,


    Steve.

  4. #14
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    I think it would be better to choose longer but safer path - to compare cores and frames. Ring can be just badly stamped (or sometimes replaced) and then all your maker´s list can be just for one thing (let´s say, for confusion).

    My assumptions:


    Known makers who used this core, are: Godet, Meybauer, Friedländer, Roesner and unknown "Z" (or "N"). Meybauer can be ruled out, because he used hump (platform) for a jumpring and his EK2 crosses were unmarked. Friedländer is out of game too, as his mark was not one letter and it was square incused. Unknown "Z" is quite not feasible, as Z or N doesn´t resemble "O" in any part.

    Godet is in game because his G is many times interpreted as O (just now here on WRF is another thread about "O" marked cross that is in fact "G". See here: Das Eisernes Kreuz Der Zweiten klasse 1914 mit das Ehrenkreuz des Weltkriegs).

    Roesner is in game as well, because he was notorious for badly stamping his "R" mark. When the right part of his "R" is badly stamped, it is always interpreted as a "Y" mark. When upper part of "R" is badly done, it is interpreted as "K" and when the lower part is badly stamped, it is taken as it was "O" cross. The small size of your cross mark works for this theory. If you compare it with another one-letter-mark cross, it is just too small, as it was only half size - as it was not O but only loop from R.

    So, we can take Godet and Roesner to the second - frame comparison - round. For this purpose we will need straight on photos of your cross. I tried to read something from your angled photos, but I wasn´t successful enough to be sure it is, or it is not G (or someone else).

    And if "O" is not only maker´s mark on some list, but also a photographed cross, let´s post it here as well.

  5. #15

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    I took some bigger & better front on shots of my cross today;

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	811408

    In addition, here are 2 photos I found of another forum, of a similar cross, with the O mark on the ring. There was similar discussion as to what it could be, but no other photos were posted, and the thread is long dead (dated 2013);

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	811409Name:  s27kgi.jpg
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  6. #16
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    Thanks for photos, I think they can move us forward.

    I did some quick comparison and I think that:

    1. Your cross is not Godet
    2. Your cross and another cross posted by you have same frame.
    3. This frame can be attributed to "R" maker, that is either Rösner, Dresden or Rosenthal, Berlin (but this is not the theme of this thread).

    Arguments: Please check the distinctive feature that can be found on your cross, second cross posted by you and clearly R marked cross in this ebay link: WWI 1914 German Iron Cross 2nd CL "R" Alfred Roesner Dresden 3 Piece EK2 18 3 G | eBay

    It is claw at the outer corner of beading at 10 and also at 11 o´clock position (i. e. left arm top and top arm left). These claws can´t be seen in other outer corners.

    Secondly, "O" mark is flat on the left side, which supports the argument that it is badly stamped R. I attached photoshoped image for better imagination.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	R.jpg 
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ID:	811479

  7. #17

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    That's some sterling detective work Miro One question - would the R be stamped vertically on the ring (in case of the mis-stamp)? The eBay example you posted has the R posted inline with the ring.

    I am definitely not arguing, as I am a beginner at this, but that's the only thing that stood out for me.

  8. #18
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    Many producers stamped crosses same way, mainly those with square incused mark, so it is definitely good question. I am not big fan of R marked crosses, mostly leaning to Godets and other makers, but from what I remember, there are "R" crosses stamped both ways. I don´t know if there was some tool for stamping crosses (and how it looked like) or if it was pure hand work (which would explain this disorder).

  9. #19

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    Quote by Miro View Post
    Many producers stamped crosses same way, mainly those with square incused mark, so it is definitely good question. I am not big fan of R marked crosses, mostly leaning to Godets and other makers, but from what I remember, there are "R" crosses stamped both ways. I don´t know if there was some tool for stamping crosses (and how it looked like) or if it was pure hand work (which would explain this disorder).
    First, the cross you got there is very good looking , I think :-)
    Secondly, I am sure stamping is handwork, like all other jewellery stamping is done ! And when the production numbers get as high as with these ww1 second class crosses, I am sure there would be made a couple of bad stampings :-/
    Mfg
    Marc
    Wir kapitulieren niemals !

  10. #20

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    Thanks Marc

    That's an interesting point you raise. We could do a quick calculation of how many EKII's were produced... when would have the last 1914 EKII been awarded, approximately?

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