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German dress bayonet. Is it converted, or just a poor example?

Article about: I acquired this dress bayonet recently, and I cannot make my mind up about it. So the question is... is it just a poor example of a dress bayonet, or has it been fashioned into a trench knif

  1. #1

    Default German dress bayonet. Is it converted, or just a poor example?

    I acquired this dress bayonet recently, and I cannot make my mind up about it. So the question is... is it just a poor example of a dress bayonet, or has it been fashioned into a trench knife? There are no makers marks present.

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    Author of... 'Belfast Diaries: A Gunner In Northern Ireland'... 'A Tough Nut To Crack: Andersonstown.. Voices From 9 Battery Royal Artillery In Northern Ireland'... 'An Accrington Pal: The Diaries of Pte Jack Smallshaw, September 1914 To March 1919'.

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    It looks like it has a sharpened edge. I would say that it is a trench knife.
    I love the stag grip's.

    Semper Fi
    Phil

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    Harry, It looks to me to be an original KS98 dress bayonet that has been heavily reshaped. From the looks of it someone let it fall into poor condition, or it was found in very poor condition and then heavily cleaned. Was it reshaped before or after? Hard to tell for sure, but I would guess during the cleaning and/or resurrection stage. On the bright side, it has, in my opinion, a set of beautiful stag grips.

    Jim

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    I don't think this was a bayonet. As it appears to not have the rifle slot to mount on the rifle. I purchased a similar looking trench knife without the stag grips. Mine was WWI era, possibly used during both world wars. Very nice knife!

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    Hi Jim,

    The knife is just another tatty example I saved.

    The stud is false, and the knife isn't made to fit on a rifle. German bayonets are another area I don't know much about, although I know a bit about WW1 bayonets. When you think about it, you have to ask what I DO know about! I don't think it is a tatty KS 98 bayonet though. I was of the opinion (or hoping) that it might be a WW1 example which had been shortened slightly and sharpened up. When in hand it becomes apparent that the blade has probably been in its current state for a very long time. There isn't a trace of maker's marks anywhere. But it is no great loss if it turns out to be a later period bayonet!
    Author of... 'Belfast Diaries: A Gunner In Northern Ireland'... 'A Tough Nut To Crack: Andersonstown.. Voices From 9 Battery Royal Artillery In Northern Ireland'... 'An Accrington Pal: The Diaries of Pte Jack Smallshaw, September 1914 To March 1919'.

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    Quote by dramos View Post
    I don't think this was a bayonet. As it appears to not have the rifle slot to mount on the rifle. I purchased a similar looking trench knife without the stag grips. Mine was WWI era, possibly used during both world wars. Very nice knife!
    Even though it doesn't have a slot it definitely started off as a Ks98 dress bayonet that was never intended to be mounted to a rifle. Although, I have seen smaller WWI "trench knifes" with the release button, but I don't think that is the case here.

    Jim

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    Quote by HARRY THE MOLE View Post
    Hi Jim,

    The knife is just another tatty example I saved.

    The stud is false, and the knife isn't made to fit on a rifle. German bayonets are another area I don't know much about, although I know a bit about WW1 bayonets. When you think about it, you have to ask what I DO know about! I don't think it is a tatty KS 98 bayonet though. I was of the opinion (or hoping) that it might be a WW1 example which had been shortened slightly and sharpened up. When in hand it becomes apparent that the blade has probably been in its current state for a very long time. There isn't a trace of maker's marks anywhere. But it is no great loss if it turns out to be a later period bayonet!
    The one drawback for it being of WWI vintage is, if memory serves me correctly, the "carbine" style blade wasn't manufactured until the late 20's early 30's. Even though the point has been reground into that style, the narrow fuller leads me to believe that this is what it was originally. I'll have a look after work to make sure this is correct. Had the price been right, I still would have bought it for the grips alone.

    Jim

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    hi steve ,not within my area of expertise but i like this one ,especially the grips ,is the scabbard period to the bayo/knife i would say it was a latter addition ,thanks for showing mate

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    Hi, May I suggest that it is a Walking Out Side Arm modeled on the KS 98 bayonet. They come with functioning and none functioning rifle attchment slots and buttons but do not fit a rifle or carbine. They were a private purchase item and are usually found in two distinct sizes the shorter being attributed to NCO's and the long or standard length for soldiers. Other than saw backs and variation quillon blocks, there are two basic patterns, Carbine (yours) with a swedge or false uper cutting edge at the tip of the blade and a single very narrow fuller to both sides of the blade. This pattern blade is usualy found on the short model but is also to be found on the long pattern occassionaly. The second style is a standard style bayonet blade. Blades can be polished steel or plated and can be plain, single and double etched. Grips can be found in cross hatched wood and plastic or natural horn and wood simulated horn. As this is a PP item, etched pommels and grip insignia could also be appended and quality varies considerably. All branches of the military and a number of para military organisations carried these weapons and there was a large number of manuacturers. Like yours, they also turn up devoid of Manufacturer's logos and occassionaly with both manufacturer's and suppliers/retailers logos. The Luftwaffe usualy wore BOS knots whilst the army wore Company/squadron/battery knots, NCO's usualy wore a generic "NCO" knot.
    Sorry if I am boring you but I hope that this info is of interest. Cheers MR

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    PS to the above, your scabbard looks like it is contemporary with the weapon but it would appear that the frog stud has either broken off or has been removed. These knives were used as fighting or trench knives during both World Wars and one could speculate that the stud was removed in order to use it as a boot knife???????????? Trench/utility knives were also manufactured in the KS 98 style but were usualy smaller that the walking out side arm.

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