I would appreciate all opinions regarding the colour of a faded ribbon on a ribbon bar I have acquired.

[KSH]

Hello fellow members,

I have acquired a WW1/WW2 5-place ribbon bar (IMO a well worn good honest ribbon bar) and quite frankly I am uncertain about the 2nd ribbon from the left. At first I thought it was the ribbon for a Württemberg award (yellow/black), but it COULD also be a yellowed white and black ribbon reminiscent of the non-combatant ribbon of the EKII 1914. The photos makes the yellow of this ribbon to appear a little more yellow and makes it stand slightly more apart from the other ribbons than it is in real life on the reverse of the bar. It seems that the white parts of all the ribbons on the reverse have suffered discolouring due to some moisture perhaps.






Thank you in advance for all opinions!

- Kenneth

[talltom]

i think its a non-combatant ribbon of the EKII 1914 because the colouring is similar to the colouring of the ribbon ek ribbon next to it it appears they have changed colour and become very similar imho
a very nice bar

tom

[Chopperman]

I don't know what it is but it is not a non-com Ek2.
There would not be 2 Ek2 ribbons on a bar.
There is a combat Ek and a honor cross with swords. Definitely
a COMBAT vet.

[talltom]

I don't know what it is but it is not a non-com Ek2.
There would not be 2 Ek2 ribbons on a bar. Especially when
There is a combat Ek and a honor cross with swords. Definitely
a COMBAT vet.

unlikely yes but stranger things have happened before......

tom

[Chopperman]

I was thinking maybe a Bavarian MVO. The stripes would be blue instead of black
but maybe the fading has altered them.

[KSH]

Thank you for all your input guys!!!

As far as I know it is unlikely but technically possible that the same man was awarded both a combatant and non-combatant EKII. Not sure though what regulations would have stipulated regarding ribbon bars: I know the combatant EKII takes precedence over the non-combatant. So if a person possessed them both, would only the ribbon for the combatant EKII be displayed on a ribbon bar? In WW1 he could have started out as a civilian or a military man far behind the front - and then later he could have been sent to battle.

In my opinion the ribbon is definitely not a Bavarian MVK/MVO, these ribbons have a thin black stripe and a thicker blue stripe on each side - 4 non-white stripes in total. The ribbon in question has only two non-white stripes and they appear black to me. Besides if it was a MVK/MVO for a veteran it should have or have had a swords device attached, which it never had. The mark on the middle of this ribbon is just some slight damage, not even close to the hole a swords device would have created.

Update:

I have just now gone over the ribbon bar very closely under a good light - and in my mind there is no doubt that this ribbon in question is white with black stripes. The black stripes of the ribbon are of an identical colour with the black of the combatant EKII. Furthermore the white parts are identical with the white parts of the combatant ribbon on the front, showing the exact same fading and discolouring. On the reverse the white parts of the ribbon in question is slightly more yellowed than the white parts of the combatant EKII, however it is completely identical with the white parts of the ribbon for the "Hindenburg Cross". The photos aren't good enough to display this to you guys - sorry about that. I can't get better shots with my camera I have also lifted the back-cloth very carefully where possible to see that these observations verify what I saw during the "external examination" - and it all fits, I found exactly what I expected behind the back-cloth.

So to conclude - I can't see what it could be besides the non-combatant ribbon for the EKII, however unlikely that may seem. It is not a Württemberg ribbon as I first thought, not a chance.

It's a mystery...

- Kenneth

[talltom]

just a thought maybe the guy won the ek2 in battle first got wounded and discharged then earned another ek2 as a civi i suppose we never will know but just a thought

tom

[Chopperman]

The Bavarian MVO without swords was a white ribbon with only 2 blue stripes.

[KSH]

The Bavarian MVO without swords was a white ribbon with only 2 blue stripes.

Indeed you are correct here, Greg! Sorry about that. But would the dimensions of the stripes be consistent with that ribbon? Aren't they a little wider on the MVO? And why do you think a MVO without swords on a Friedensband - "peace ribbon" would be more likely, seeing that this also is a non-combatant award?

And besides, I'm positive that the stripes are black and not blue, as they are 100% identical to all other black areas on the ribbon bar based on what I see.

- Kenneth

[Battery Command Post]

just a thought maybe the guy won the ek2 in battle first got wounded and discharged then earned another ek2 as a civi i suppose we never will know but just a thought

tom

I know its always called the "non-combatant" Iron Cross, but I have a feeling it isn't actually a medal only for non-combatants per se, but rather a medal for some act of meritorious service performed in a situation other than combat, whether you are a soldier or not. My point being, there is no reason a military man couldn't win such an award.

I could be wrong here...

Rob