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Imperial Eks

Article about: Excellent EKs you have there Chopperman. Can you tell me more info about this one?

  1. #1611
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    Here is the second one, marked with mark that is always read as Fr.
    This is the reason why you find them cheap on ebay (from time to time, of course - they are rare), because they are sold as unmarked/marked with unreadable mark, or marked with Fr, which is quite common mark. The only difference is, that Friedländer used dot at the end of his "Fr" mark (last photo).

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  2. #1612

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    Merry Christmas Miro.
    Those are two very nice and seldom seen crosses.
    Thanks for showing them together, noteing the differences.

    I have never quite understood the relationship between Hanson
    and Koch & Bergfeld. I am curious as to why either cross would
    have a "Fr" marking? Do you think the mark on the first one
    that you posted is a makers mark or purhaps just a tool marking
    from assembly.
    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  3. #1613

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    Hi Miro,
    Very fine crosses both of them :-)
    Could you explain the Fr, because to me Fr does not refer to any of the 2 mentioned makers names !? Usually the letters has some relation to the full name, as our times hallmarks in the Jewellery trade ?:-)
    Mfg
    Marc
    Wir kapitulieren niemals !

  4. #1614
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    Too difficult questions for very rare crosses. All i can say is:
    M. Hansen owned 3 jeweler companies around 1914. One of them was Koch & Bergfeld in Bremen. The K&B company still exists (Koch & Bergfeld silverware manufactory from Bremen - silver cutlery, silverware, accessories)

    Koch & Bergfeld produced - as M. Hansen did - famous and now expensive EK1s screwbacks, but pinbacks as well. While Hansen pieces were marked with Hansen name and/or DRGM number, K&B pieces were signed with different mark (see first photo) - slightly resembling F, and called "Pedestal vase". (source: Koch & Bergfeld silverware manufactory and it's hallmarks for silver cutlery)

    Of course, both companies produced also EK2s. Probably the complexity of makers marks (both Hansen´s and K&B´s) was the reason why the marking of EK2 rings was different. Hansen EK2s were marked with mark slightly resembling Y (source: Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums - View Single Post - " A study of EKs- Hansen EKs.").

    No source contemplates about K&B maker´s mark for EK2s. It is only my guess that K&B is the cross marked with mark resembling Fr. The stress is on word "resembling". If we compare the K&B EK1 mark (Pedestal vase), it resembles "F" as well... And if we photograph so called "Fr" mark upside down, it can be everything else... (second photo)

    This is all I know. Hope it helps.

    Miro


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  5. #1615

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    Thanks Miro, for trying to enlighten us ;-)
    Mfg
    Marc
    Wir kapitulieren niemals !

  6. #1616
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    Wagner´s B14 core EK2. I always wanted one. Now it motivates me even more to find B70 cross as well...

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  7. #1617

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    Nice
    These early sand cast core 1914s seem to be getting
    harder and harder to find.
    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  8. #1618

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    Very nice looking cross Miro

    MFG
    Marc
    Wir kapitulieren niemals !

  9. #1619
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    Quote by Miro View Post
    Wagner´s B14 core EK2. I always wanted one. Now it motivates me even more to find B70 cross as well...

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    Miro,

    As I no longer actively collect EKs and have passed on my reference books I'm not up to date with many of the statements made. Is there an online explanation about the cores you mention? I've never heard of B14 or B70, are they something special or just a name given to a certain manufacturer's core? I should really search the forum first before asking.

    I still one or two EKs, when I get the chance I'll have to show them off.

    Tony

  10. #1620
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    Hi Tony,

    B70 is type of Iron cross 1870 (from Franco - Prussian war). There were two basic types of cores for EKs 1870 - A type core and B type core. I am posting B type core for reference (not from my collection).

    Early in 1914 Wagner used very similar type of the core (same crown and W, identical reverse - just date on obverse is different) for his 1914 EKs. When manufacturing them, he used same technigues as is known from 1870 crosses - blackening and sand casting of the core. Only later he switched to stamped and painted cores, while using about 4 other - generic - core types. This early unique core got the name B 14 core, "B" resembling B type from Franco - Prussian war and "14" indicating that it is 1914 cross. This is not ultra rare cross, just - as Greg mentioned - "harder to find" type.

    Looking forward to see your crosses.

    Miro

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