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Imperial Eks

Article about: Excellent EKs you have there Chopperman. Can you tell me more info about this one?

  1. #361
    ?

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    Thanks Chopperman. I was not able to see the pics because Im not a member of that forum. Heres what I know so far. I read that the core was made then sent to one of these companies for the frames to be added like you said. I also read that the EK1s were marked on the back so if you take an EK1 marked and compare it to an EK2 you might be able to see similarities that you can match to that company. In Previtera´s book its says that a squat, sharp, flat topped 1870 can be attributed to both manufacturers, but these same numerals in a taller, rounder finish are more likely the work of Wagner. My problem is that I dont have the crosses or pictures to compare. Another question I have is whats the difference between a type A core and a type B core. My other cross in the medal bars thread I think Steve said was a type B. Do you want me to post that other cross here? Thanks


  2. #362
    ?

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    BTW, Chopperman thanks for the compliment! Im just lucky to live in Germany where Imperial items are common and relatively inexpensive.

  3. #363

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    The typeA cores used by Godet can also be found in Wagner
    and Lauer made crosses. Wagner had a slightly different
    typeA core so far seen ONLY in SOME of their 1st class crosses.

    The 1870 2nd class type A cores are virtually all identicle.

    Here is a picture showing a pair of Wagner 1st class with the
    type A core.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  4. #364

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    In the picture posted above, the two Wagners have different cores.
    The one with the yellow background can be found in Wagner,
    Godet and Lauer marked 1st class crosses and MOST early typeA
    2nd class crosses. The one with the white background seems
    to be unique to Wagner 1st class crosses only.

    The type B core has a very unique style of date and is attributed
    to Godet. It is thought that this was Godet's first attempt at
    making the 1870 core after the closing of the Berlin foundry
    in 1873.

    type B core--
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  5. #365

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    disclaimer----
    The pictures and info on the 1870 1st class crosses is stuff
    that I have saved for my files from other places. I only
    wish I had a 1870 1st. class to compare against but sadly
    they are way to expensive for my small budget.
    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  6. #366
    ?

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    Thanks a bunch! Im a tough student so if I have any more questions about this I will ask. Did you want me to post my other 1870 cross here as well from the other thread? I too will probably never own a 1870 first class. Another question. I dont know what these go for elswhere but I have been offered another EK2 1870 without ribbon for 265 euro. I paid 200 for the one with ribbon. Is this still a good deal anyway that I should jump on?

  7. #367

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    Hi, all--

    Here is the EK2 that arrived for me today. It is my first Imperial. Very nice condition I think, awarded to one Richard Otto Herrmann if the citation included is authentic. Would love to hear some thoughts on this one, especially on whether the citation is real (perhaps a full translation?).

    I could not get my camera to cooperate in getting a shot of the maker mark. It is marked "M" or "W"? Not sure about that, I'm more of a TR collector.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #368

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    Tony, welcome to the Imperial German section of the forum, your cross is genuine, and in very nice condition. I cant make out the mm, but if it is as you believe, 'M' is a known mark, but an unknown maker, or 'W' for 'Wagner' of Berlin. As to the Ausweis/Urkunde ( I.D./Award document), that IMO is a genuine handwritten at Battalion level initial award document, signed by the Battalion commander, in this case a Major. It basically states that '' a medic NCO Richard Otto Hermann of an artillery munitions column within the XIII (13th) Wurttemberg army corps, (I cannot make out any regiment numbers/letters) born 23rd March 1886 in Reichenbach, is awarded the Iron Cross 2nd class, awarded in the field 28th March 1917''. There were four Wurttemberg Field Artillery Regiments in the XIII A.K. ....F.A.R. 13.29.49 & 65. I hope this helps.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  9. #369

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    Quote by oradour View Post
    Tony, welcome to the Imperial German section of the forum, your cross is genuine, and in very nice condition. I cant make out the mm, but if it is as you believe, 'M' is a known mark, but an unknown maker, or 'W' for 'Wagner' of Berlin. As to the Ausweis/Urkunde ( I.D./Award document), that IMO is a genuine handwritten at Battalion level initial award document, signed by the Battalion commander, in this case a Major. It basically states that '' a medic NCO Richard Otto Hermann of an artillery munitions column within the XIII (13th) Wurttemberg army corps, (I cannot make out any regiment numbers/letters) born 23rd March 1886 in Reichenbach, is awarded the Iron Cross 2nd class, awarded in the field 28th March 1917''. There were four Wurttemberg Field Artillery Regiments in the XIII A.K. ....F.A.R. 13.29.49 & 65. I hope this helps.
    Thanks for information! This is the first piece in my collection that has a name attached to it. I wish there was some way I could find out a little more about this man, but as someone of little significance I must be content with the fact that he is probably lost to history..

    What can you tell me about Wagner? Or the unknown M maker? Common? Scarce? etc. Do you happen to have shots of either maker mark? Perhaps then I could discern which one mine is.

  10. #370

    Default Re: Imperial Eks

    It would be nice if we could see the makers mark. Wagner
    crosses would be marked S-W or WS for Sy-Wagner and
    for Wagner & Sohn.

    If it looks like the one pictured below, it could be a M or
    IVI. Many of us think it is the later "IVI". However we still
    do not know which is correct and who it would have been.

    BTW-- nice cross .
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

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