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Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

Article about: These badges are heavily faked today, so I thought it could be interesting (for some at least) to see good pictures of a no-nonsense Imperial Navy Wound Badge in Black made from iron, having

  1. #1
    KSH
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    Default Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    These badges are heavily faked today, so I thought it could be interesting (for some at least) to see good pictures of a no-nonsense Imperial Navy Wound Badge in Black made from iron, having a typical period catch and a typical period wrap-around hinge. I have just added this badge to my collection and it is the first example of a Naval Wound Badge in Black I have had the chance to buy that I was fully convinced was definitely awarded during the Great War.

    This is as you see a heavily worn badge, just the way I like them, showing some history. Just out of curiosity I have gone through every example of Naval Wound Badges currently available for sale (or posted as a reference in forums) that it was possible for me to find and I have not found an identical one yet. I have however found LOADS of different fakes on ebay etc.

    The two last pictures are taken with flash.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    - Kenneth
    Last edited by KSH; 06-17-2011 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    Hi Kenneth! How does this one look to you mate?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
    KSH
    KSH is offline
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    Default Re: Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    Quote by panzermeister View Post
    Hi Kenneth! How does this one look to you mate?

    Hi Troy,

    I have seen many with this design on ebay, ioffer, you name it, and quite frankly I personally don't believe in these badges. First of all, I have never seen any evidence that two different designs were used for the Naval Wound Badge. Secondly, I find these badges to be of very low quality, design-wise and manufacture-wise. The reverse setup also looks wrong on these even for a WW2 replacement badge replacing a badge originally awarded in WWI.

    But understand one thing: I do not claim to be an expert on these badges at all. If anyone can prove that the above design was in fact manufactured in the period (either WWI or interwar-WWII as replacement badges) that would of course influence my view on them. I have only handled badges of the accepted standard design (as posted by me originally in this thread). I have never handled a badge of the design you here have posted. It would be very interesting if you could provide good photos of that particular badge (like my photos above) showing high-resolution shots of the obverse, reverse, catch and hinge-setup.

    But as I said, I don't believe in the kind of badge you have posted. I believe they are downright poor fakes. Look at this thread here:

    http://warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-g...good-bad-8174/

    I believe the badge shown in this thread I have linked to is a poor cast fake with poor pebbling and poor details. MAYBE just simply a fantasy design. Just like the one posted by you.

    Fakers have really started to notice the rising demand for Imperial German militaria and these naval wound badges are perfect for them. They are worth considerably more than their black standard counterpart black WWI wound badge and easy and cheap to manufacture. In addition to this people generally have less knowledge on Imperial badges than on Third Reich badges, and they are trying to exploit that to the full IMO.

    - Kenneth

  4. #4

    Default Re: Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    [/URL] Fakers have really started to notice the rising demand for Imperial German militaria and these wounded-badges are perfect for them. In addition to this people generally have less knowledge on Imperial badges than on Third Reich badges, and they are trying to exploit that to the full.- Kenneth[/QUOTE]

    Gentlemen, although I am unable to contribute positively to this thread, Kaiserliche Marine not being my sphere of collecting within Imperial German militaria, I am in complete agreement with Kenneths quote above, the nearer we get to the centinary of the Great War the more interest is created, thus more demand for items, which will become a goldmine for the fakers, who until now have generally left us Imperial collectors alone, unlike our TR counterparts.....
    E-Bay particularly is now sadly riddled with reproductions/fakes/fantasy items etc, genuine items becoming very rare.
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    Hi Kenneth and Steve, thanks for your input. Kenneth, (or as we'd call you down here, Ken!), I'd be happy to mail it to you to look at, if you could mail it back. Well, mail it back if you are satisfied that is the real deal, if it's a fake, I wouldn't want it back. You would then have one as an example to assist other people, like me, who may have been suckered! I bought if from Germany, not ebay USA, but that is no guarantee I know. I have seen Marine wound badges in gold and silver for sale as well, were they in fact ever awarded?

  6. #6
    KSH
    KSH is offline
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    Default Re: Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    Quote by panzermeister View Post
    Hi Kenneth and Steve, thanks for your input. Kenneth, (or as we'd call you down here, Ken!), I'd be happy to mail it to you to look at, if you could mail it back. Well, mail it back if you are satisfied that is the real deal, if it's a fake, I wouldn't want it back. You would then have one as an example to assist other people, like me, who may have been suckered! I bought if from Germany, not ebay USA, but that is no guarantee I know. I have seen Marine wound badges in gold and silver for sale as well, were they in fact ever awarded?
    There is nothing that I am aware of that suggests that the Silver and Gold grades were never awarded, so probably they were awarded during WWI. But originals of the Gold grade especially are scarce. I have never seen one for sale that I felt was original. The naval wound badges were instituted June 24, 1918 a couple of months later than the "standard wound badges" for ground based troops. Also remember that these badges were produced during WWI, the interwar years and in WWII. The badges originally awarded in WWI were made of iron and were die stamped according to my information. I am personally more interested in the original issued pieces (like the badge I have posted on the top of this thread) as opposed to badges made in the interwar years and during WWII to replace these originally awarded pieces. But I would have no problems with owning a badge from the interwar years or WWII!

    That's a bit drastic, to send it all the way from Australia to Norway (!) to have it assessed by an amateur like myself?

    Question #1:

    Is your badge identical in every way to the badge posted in the thread I have linked to above? I am here talking about obverse/reverse features, pin, hinge, catch, colour of finish etc.

    Question #2:

    Is there any sign of what is called 'shear marks' on the outside edge of the badge? These marks take the form of fine, parallel lines running perpendicular to the flat surface of the badge. These marks are leftovers from the cutting process when stamped.

    I have attached a picture of shear marks here (not from a badge made in the exact same way, but you get the picture):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And please note that shear marks will be formed differently with different materials. They will not be identical from badge to badge. And if your badge doesn't display them in any way, that doesn't automatically tell us that it's a fake. They could have been polished off etc. But, it would for me at least be something that doesn't exactly help the badge in my eyes, if it doesn't display these shear marks. It would then rather be more consistent with a cast badge, and non of these badges were ever cast, they were as said stamped.

    All my stamped wound badges have these marks, some more, some less, but clearly identifiable on them all.

    - Kenneth
    Last edited by KSH; 07-12-2011 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Kaiserliche Marine - Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwartz

    Hi Kenneth

    My badge is different on the back to the one in the link, it has a thin pin, but the catch and hinge look similar to me. I'll try to take a decent photo for you, but alas, my current camera doesn't have a good macro capacity. I also can see no shear marks at all. I'm now not hopeful, I paid $80US for it five years ago, it might have to be another lesson learnt!

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