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M16 Camo with odd shell

Article about: Guys, Another hole in my collection is filled! Yes!!!! Just picked this up today. Classic M16 camo with chinstrap and liner. One liner pad is off and the other two are there but very dry. Ch

  1. #1
    MAP
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    Default M16 Camo with odd shell

    Guys,

    Another hole in my collection is filled! Yes!!!!

    Just picked this up today. Classic M16 camo with chinstrap and liner. One liner pad is off and the other two are there but very dry. Chinstrap is still relatively soft.

    My question. I have never seen an M16 with these ridges on the skirt of the helmet. They are most pronounced on the back but are also on the visor and sides as well. Manufacturing defect? Or just something I've missed. My other WW1 lids don't have this.

    Additionally I can find any maker marks. Any thoughts on that as well?

    Thoughts?

    This lid just came out of a very very old collection that is being sold off.

    Any and all comments welcome.

    Regards,

    Michael

    (btw - It's 13 F here today not including the windchill which brings it down well below zero). Took some outside shots but sun glare and wind made it difficult so had to take some quick inside shots as well.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  2. #2

    Default

    My semi-learned opinion here is that you have one of he very early 1916 produced 'square dip' helmets. the brow to visor shape is more perpendicular and the press marks you note are more pronounced due to the more acute angles and deeper draw. the later versions refined the production techniques to the curvier subsequent variants. the camo is of course applied on or after July 1918, so a very rare survivor - probably in a rear area unit or similar.

    well done - gorgeous lid.

  3. #3
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Default

    Thanks! Well here's hoping that it is something unique. But I don't think it is a square dip.

    The transition from the visor to the side skirt is sloped and not sharply angled.

    If you are a member to WAF, here is a link where you can see the difference between the two in post #10

    M16 Square Dip - Page 2 - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    What I'm most interested in (besides the fact that there are no maker marks) are this long vertical flutes that circle the entire circumference of the skirt. Obviously something in the manufacturing process. But what? See 5th picture from the bottom in my post above.

    The helmet is 100% legit IMHO but it's driving me crazy how these got there. (however happy to get feedback if others disagree on the originality of the helmet.)

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #4

    Default

    well - the ripples are a consequence of a slightly too thin sheet of steel distorting in the dies during the multi stage deep draw process. It is unusual it escaped batch quality control at the factory as 1 in 100 were tested for various proof while not specifically helmet related but this is exactly the process used to make the stahlhelm:Deep Drawing Of Sheet Metal

  5. #5

    Default

    Micheal
    I am pretty sure the ridges you see, and probably are able to feel, are a result of the forming process called drawing. Draw dies must be kept highly polished and lubricated so the steel (helmet in this case) can flow freely into shape. If the die was in need of polishing, and/or the part ran dry, draw lines will result. A poor lot of steel could be the cause also. I have noticed helmets with heavy draw lines before but not as extensive as yours. At any rate I am sure they are not there intentionally but a result of the manufacturing process. Nice helmet.
    Steve

  6. #6

    Default

    WW II but they were made the same way in WW I
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqyaOvXvSnE

  7. #7
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Default

    LoL....with 100% honesty...thanks for the link. But the LoL was on me. I started reading and got lost by the 2nd or so paragraph but I like a 3 year old I went right to the pictures....I'm still laughing at how lame I am!

    Your conclusions are what I expected so thanks a million. But like you said, I'm surprised it got out the door and not into the reject pile. I wonder if anyone has seen one with such obvious marks.

    Not that it matters to me but I wonder if it makes it more valuable (not focusing from a monetary perspective)

    Any thoughts on the lack of maker/size stamps?

    Thanks again for everything.

    M
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  8. #8

    Default

    the lack of marks might mean it went to the reject pile and for whatever reason got mixed up into a batch that went out?? probably unknowable....

  9. #9

    Default

    Mike (MAP) is right, this is not a "square dip" M16, but it is a VERY NICE original M16 camo. Steve is right about the ridges as well. The maker/size stamps should be over the wearer's left ear. If you can get a clear macro shot of that area you may be able to see the stamps in the photo. I love the colors on this one by the way, it will certainly fill the spot on your shelf well. Jim G.

  10. #10
    MAP
    MAP is online now
    ?

    Default

    Quote by helmet2id View Post
    Mike (MAP) is right, this is not a "square dip" M16, but it is a VERY NICE original M16 camo. Steve is right about the ridges as well. The maker/size stamps should be over the wearer's left ear. If you can get a clear macro shot of that area you may be able to see the stamps in the photo. I love the colors on this one by the way, it will certainly fill the spot on your shelf well. Jim G.
    thanks Jim,

    I looked where the marks should be when I got it but nada. Will take out my USB microscope and try again.

    Thanks for the thumbs up. This literally fell in my lap today, unexpected. I raided the emergency fund and bought it right away. Could not let it get away. Once my photo skills are up to snuff I will also post on GWH if you like.

    And thanks to everyone for the info. Will keep you posted if I find a maker mark.

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

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