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Is this picklehaube original?

Article about: It doesn't matter that a liner may have been replaced in a helmet. The important thing is when it was replaced that counts!

  1. #21

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    It doesn't matter that a liner may have been replaced in a helmet. The important thing is when it was replaced that counts!
    Author of... 'Belfast Diaries: A Gunner In Northern Ireland'... 'A Tough Nut To Crack: Andersonstown.. Voices From 9 Battery Royal Artillery In Northern Ireland'... 'An Accrington Pal: The Diaries of Pte Jack Smallshaw, September 1914 To March 1919'.

  2. #22
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    I am with you Harry, as far as vehicles and guns are concerned. Pickelhauben is something else... It would be impossible that an officially issued pickelhaube would be upgraded with all officers hardware (private purchase) in a repair shop of the army. You have to realize that enlisted men and NCO had officially issued pickelhauben and all the rest had to purchase their helmets with their own money.
    It was almost impossible if one was promoted to officer to get his former issued helmet an get it rebuild just because that haube was army property. If (in exepional cases) that happened the new owner purchased the helmet and than it was also stamped as personal property with the stamp "Eigentum".
    An enlisted man could purchase a helmet of his own for going out, parades, mariage etc... The quality of the helmet depended on the amount of money the owner wanted to spend, but these helmets all have officer style liners. This means that a private purchase helmet of an enlisted man could in some cases be of better quality than the helmet of an officer, only he could not wear the officer's kokarden, spike, perlring,...
    The helmet that started this thread is not one of these possibilities, the conclusion is therefore that it's a parts helmet. This reflects immediately on the value of course. That was at the end all I wanted to say.
    When a collector is happy with that, that's fine by me, when he thinks it's still original (but it isn't), that's also fine... but then whe have to ask ourselves: what are we collecting, what is the definition of original, what's the value of the things we collect?
    I'll start with my idea (it's not nessecary the same as other people's):
    - What am I collecting? Answer: Original German military items between 1870 and nov. 11 1918. Categories: Pickelhauben, steel helmets, fieldgray uniforms and equipment.
    - What is original? Answer: The item must be as it was produced in the factory, but considdering the age there may be some patina, wear, repairs period done. When parts are added or replaced that aren't the same as the original, it's not original anymore.
    - What is the value of something? Answer: The value of an item is determined by several things as: originality, looks, number of the item produced, condition, demand for the item, how well is the item known by the public and so on...

    At the end the one who intends to purchase the item has to decide how much money he wants to spend on an item. If the buyer is happy with his purchase, he has done well, as long as he exactly knows what he has spent his money on...

    As comparison some pictures of an officially issued, private purchase enlisted man and an officers pickelhaube...

    Adler

    Issued enlisted man
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Name:	M95 Pruis IR 26 04.JPG 
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ID:	724245 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M95 Pruis IR 26 06.jpg 
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ID:	724246

    Private purchase enlisted man
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M95 Saksen Leib-Grenadier-Regt. Nr.100 04.jpg 
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ID:	724247 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M95 Saksen Leib-Grenadier-Regt. Nr.100 06.jpg 
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ID:	724248

    Private purchase Officer
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M95 Pruis Inf Res Off 05.jpg 
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ID:	724249 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M95 Pruis Inf Res Off 07.jpg 
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ID:	724250

  3. #23
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    Karel, you are one of about four collectors who's expertise in this area I trust implicitly. As always, thanks for sharing!

  4. #24
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    Karel is the best he more often than not posts a full break down of a piece.
    With haubes it must be difficult from the pics its obviously not a dealer so the seller just sees a spike helmet a few months ago on an ebay there was a Prussian EM complete just covered in storage dirt in short order purists were all over it and bidding takes off.

    Eric

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