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I'm a rookie with these bayonets and you should wait for other more qualified people to opine (you should post them separately in the correct forum).
But I think the first bayonet is the US made 1913 pattern bayonet for the British in WWI. . The odd part is the scabbard with has the wire attachment for the US webbing. The British scabbard did not have these and instead had the frog stud. Its a mix matched pair IMHO
The second looks like a US pattern M1905 but again with what I think is a later US scabbard.
Here's a link that I've used in the past. It should help
USA - First World War Era Bayonets
Regards,
Michael
"Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated
My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them
"Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)
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10-24-2014 03:23 AM
# ADS
Circuit advertisement
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Both nice US WWI bayonets. One with the grooves
on the grips is a Remington which fits the M1917
rifle, the other the 1903 Springfield.........
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Real nice Gew 98 ww1 Mauser workhorse of German infantry in ww1 like the k98k was in ww2 I have owned many through the years later war ones restocked, Turkish reworks that flood the shows today but that is a super good one with history good luck on getting it. timothy
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HARRY THE MOLE
You are unlikely to find a regimental disc on a 1916 dated rifle. They were no longer fitted by then, and had been replaced with a bolt stripping aid - the washer you see passing through the stock. My own example is a 1902 Danzig-made rifle which does have the marker. And it was issued to the 29th infantry regiment which were part of the German 7th army at the battle of the Marne in August 1914. That is lovely woodwork on your friends example!
Harry ; the gew98 change in stock features to include the regimental disc was not fully implented until very late in 1916. As well many many old pattern stocks were in the supply system for replacement purposes and of course the germans reused older pattern stocks in salvage of rifles collected from the field. I have a goregeous 1916 Spandau marked to a Jaeger company... and a buddy has a gorgeous 1915 Erfurt marked to the sister jaeger company of mine !. Alot of german units continued to property marked arms and bayonets after officially ordered not too.
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Haw1936
Attachment 756590Attachment 756591Attachment 756592
Here are some pictures showing markings on the stock (not real clear) that I took today. This same marking is on the butt plate, but not very visible in the pictures.
I have several more pictures of the rifle, but too many to post at this time.
Is there a place to list rifles like this to sell?
Also, the friend gave me two bayonets from either WWI or II which I thought might fit my M1 Garand. I think they will fit the WWI USA rifle. Here is a picture of them.
Attachment 756594Attachment 756595Attachment 756596
The first bayonet as mentioned will fit either the Patt'14 or the US model 1917 rifles. The scabbards are both for the M1917 pattern bayonet. The scond bayonet is a US model 1905 poker. Oddly US 1905's garner more money than worth in my opinion..but that's what the market brings on them though. The gew98 has gorgeous unsanded wood. DO NOT "clean" the stock with anything other than a light wipedown with vaseline and an old towel. Any soap or "cleaner" will fug up the original sheen forever. Using liberal doses of KROIL oil to clean the metal is all I would ever do to it. If the bolt and all small parts like screws and cleaning rod match such a rifle would likely be asking over a grand at todays dealer tables at shows. A 16 dated oberndorf is not rare by any means but it still is a great looking gew98 from th epics as long as one does not get ignorant with the cleaning of it. I have seen once beautiful german rifles of both world wars where some sods used things like acetone and any myriad of solvents to "clean" the wood. And everyoneof those peices lost it's oriignal patinated aged original finish..forever.
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I believe that my own rifle is one which used a very early stock on a later - but still very early rifle. The rifle is a Danzig manufactured 1902 dated rifle. The stock had been cut through at the second barrel-band. I presume this was done to enable the rifle to fit in a kit-bag so that the weapon could be taken home. The cut cannot be seen until the band is moved. The two pieces were re-joined with steel pins and glue. The only Gew98 rifles I have seen with the unit discs were all of early manufacture without the finger groove to the stock. Every single example I have seen with the finger groove didn't have the disc. Obviously you having seen 1916 dated examples with regimental discs does show that they existed later. But you don't say whether your 1916 example has an earlier stock fitted to a later action!
Apologies for the group picture. But it is the only image I have of my Gew98 at present. Just forward of the regimental disc is a German military button which was set into the walnut stock, but I have no idea when this was done.
Steve.
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Harry ; I have several dozen matching nonreworked gew98's . I have a 1917 Amberg in the A block of that year... and it sports fingergrooves and a regimental disc. The germans were a frugal lot and used whatever was serviceable. As well the stock changes like dismount disc in place of the regimental disc and fingergrooves were implemented at the various manufacturers own pace so as nto to adversely effect rifle output. The changes were adopted in mid 1916 with this clause. Hence you will find matching original factory gew98's from mid 1916 to early 1917 with a mix of new and old features as noted. These details are also noted in D.Storz's excellent book on the gew98 rifle.
Artillery depots and provisional depots as well assembled no small quantity of gew98's from al new armorers parts to those with a mix of new parts and salvaged assemblies. I have owned several of such variants over the years. For example I had a 1917 Danzig that had very little to no acceptance proofing that was all matched around a salvaged bolt. Quite unique as it was no doubt assembled at a depot or artillery park shop when rifles were needed badly. Alot of the same with Kar98's as you will find a mix of fingergrooved w/out disc and with until the changes were fully implemented that did not cost downtime that slowed production. Not counting some Kar98's and gewehrs that turn up with two peice buttstocks akin to the Arisaka's. I have a nice 1917 Danzig - matching with the two peice stock and all the late features - fingergrooves and takedown disc.
The germans followed this same method in WW2 98k production where changes in stock and sight hoods were allowed to be incrementally implemented between their adoption in late 1939 until about mid to late 1941 when manufacturers were all on board. They were always pragmatic about not having downtime in production regarding such details. Also note that in WW1 as in WW2 the various german small arms makers whom had surplus parts productions always helped other makers by shipping such parts to other manufacturers in need of same. Lots of sanctioned and encouraged horse trading there to keep production up and costs down.
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Wow... you certainly know your stuff! My particular example (the stock at least) was issued to the 29th infantry regt which fought at the battle of the Marne in August 1914. I have only ever had two matching numbered Gew98's. The rest were built from salvaged parts, and this example is the earliest example I have ever owned. It still has it's original rear sights calibrated from 200 meters. It is also the only unit-marked gew98 I have owned - although I once had a Mg08 on trench mount which was unit-marked to a Stosstrupp. Thanks for the information on the discs. My knowledge was based on what I once read somewhere about the practice of marking unit details being stopped around 1916. Such details were always handy to the enemy! But like everything else, this hobby is always about learning.
Cheers,
Steve.
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