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Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

Article about: After I found this forum, I read threads and went through my collection to see which seemed obvious fakes and which I thought were good. I am posting what is left in my collection ( after I

  1. #1

    Default Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    After I found this forum, I read threads and went through my collection to see which seemed obvious fakes and which I thought were good. I am posting what is left in my collection ( after I removed the items that I thought were fakes ) and I would very much appreciate your comments and thoughts as to the authenticity. I took as good pictures as I possibly could.

    This is my hollowed Infanterie Sturmabzeichen marked R.S.S.

    Thanks to all in advance for your thoughts and comments.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. # ADS
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  3. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    Original Richard Simm & Sohne badge, likely to be a 'type 2' if I understand Fischer's research correctly? No doubt he will be along to correct me......

  4. #3

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    its good.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    Can some one please let me know what makes you say that it is an original?

    Thanks

  6. #5

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    wildkatz we say its original because it is,comes with experience.

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    Quote by wildkatz22 View Post
    Can some one please let me know what makes you say that it is an original?

    Thanks
    Pleeeeease don't tell me you're going to ask the same question of every piece you've posted?

    You've asked if its real or fake each time and been given the answer and now you're asking the same question over again on each thread.

    Maybe it might be a good idea to research why it's an original for yourself using the wealth of information here and answer your own questions?

  8. #7

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    TJ,
    When someone tells you it is an original, go to the top of the forum and locate the search function. Type in the name of what you are looking for and hit go. You will be able to compare yours with others of the same maker.
    This one is good. Here is my example to compare.
    Mine has a replaced hinge and pin.
    Ralph.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  9. #8

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    Ralph,

    Thank you very much for the advise. I will do that going forward.


    All,

    I understand and appreciate the fact that more experienced members are helping the other members just becuase they want to help. Keeping that in mind, my question of "why do you say that it's an original" is not aimed towards insulting or questioning any ones opinion. It is simply a (strong willed) attempt to understand what makes an original an original due to the lack of experience in the hobby on my part. I have realized that the best way to confirm the originality is to:
    1. compare the award in question to a known original
    2. pay attention to finer details
    3. Experience

    However, to me these are a bit difficult (please forgive me if I'm wrong)
    1. There are some really good reproductions
    2. Some of the originals, just as big ned proved, are just badly constructed or could be even damaged
    3. If the maker is not marked, it may be hard to determine what the best model to compare against
    4. Even if the maker is marked, each company seems to have different variations depending on the time of the manufacteror
    5. huge lack of experience handeling these items because of my limited time in the hobby, limited available time and limited collection

    Therefore, I would like to sincerely appologize for any ones feeling I may have hurt.

    Wildkatz22

  10. #9

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    Hello Wildkatz22

    Having compared yours to know and accepted originals, I would say yours is a wartime example.

    Recently, I have been researching the Richard Simm & Sohne examples for a project I am working on, finding a few attributes I was not aware of.

    Obverse features:
    The solids have two different obverse designs as Adrian has stated. In looking at the 1R leaf on the wreath, we see your example is a (5) vein variant. There is also a (6) vein variant.

    Reverse features:
    Both examples posted here are (5) vein examples but if you compare the reverse, you will see the mm differs; Ralph's is tightly spaced and yours has space between the letters.
    This shows us multiple reverse dies were used.
    The Ball Hinge set up on the RSS examples is unique to the Gablonz area and can be found on both the RSS hollow and the solid.
    The two examples shown here have the ball hinge and (from what I can see with the pics) the flat stock catch "crimped in" as the attachment method.
    Later examples show that the crimping method must not have held up as expected. The ball hinge and catch were soldered on top of the areas where the hardware would have been crimped in place.

    To date, I have only seen the (6) vein examples with the hardware soldered in place; the (5) veins are found with both methods of attachment, soldered and crimped.

    Another feature is the very similar obverse design of the RSS solid when compared to the JFS solid (another Gablonz maker). Taking this into consideration, I would say some type of cooperation existed between these two makers...albeit purely speculation on my part.

    Best Regards, fischer

  11. #10

    Default Re: Authentic or fake R.S.S. Infanterie Sturmabzeichen

    Quote by wildkatz22 View Post
    Ralph,

    Thank you very much for the advise. I will do that going forward.


    All,

    I understand and appreciate the fact that more experienced members are helping the other members just becuase they want to help. Keeping that in mind, my question of "why do you say that it's an original" is not aimed towards insulting or questioning any ones opinion. It is simply a (strong willed) attempt to understand what makes an original an original due to the lack of experience in the hobby on my part. I have realized that the best way to confirm the originality is to:
    1. compare the award in question to a known original
    2. pay attention to finer details
    3. Experience

    However, to me these are a bit difficult (please forgive me if I'm wrong)
    1. There are some really good reproductions
    2. Some of the originals, just as big ned proved, are just badly constructed or could be even damaged
    3. If the maker is not marked, it may be hard to determine what the best model to compare against
    4. Even if the maker is marked, each company seems to have different variations depending on the time of the manufacteror
    5. huge lack of experience handeling these items because of my limited time in the hobby, limited available time and limited collection

    Therefore, I would like to sincerely appologize for any ones feeling I may have hurt.

    Wildkatz22
    Hello

    All valid points and will give my opinion.

    1. There are what I consider horrible reproductions and really, really good repro's.
    The only way to tell the difference is to learn the attributes of your choice of collectible. The hobby is just like anything else, you get out what you put in.
    2. Some originals are crudely made but even these have what I call the "correct look".
    Wartime hardware, base materials, finishes are difficult to replicate exactly. Having studied the known originals, you learn to see faults with the fakes.
    3. All unknown examples have been named by collectors for ease of identification. Examples would be the "Egghead" or the "Vienna Design"
    Some unmarked examples also have been attributed to a certain maker such as Juncker or Berg & Nolte. If you do not know what the name of the badge is, after posting it, most will let you know. You then can use the search function for research purposes.
    4. This is true; if you study certain makers you will learn the traits, hardware set ups, materials and their progression.
    5. We all had to start with one badge and expand from there. That is the fun part of the hobby IMO.

    One thing that helped me was to start my own Infanterie Sturmabzeichen data base, saving pics by name for comparison purposes.
    This helped me learn the different attributes of each example.

    Best Regards, fischer

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