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101st airborne patch type 3?

Article about: Hi all, I hope that someone can help me with this screaming eagle patch. My knowledge in this section is very little and I want to learn more about the 101st Arirborne patches that they made

  1. #1

    Default 101st airborne patch type 3?

    Hi all,

    I hope that someone can help me with this screaming eagle patch. My knowledge in this section is very little and I want to learn more about the 101st Arirborne patches that they made during the war.
    And the first patch that I bought, except the one i bought from the museum as a souvenir when I was 10 years old

    I did some research on the internet about the patches and bought a book for extra information.
    What I have found so far is that it's probably a type 3, because the eye of a type 4 is placed closer to the beak and is more circle-shaped and the size of the tongue is shorter than a type 3.
    I compared the patch with the one from the book (See last picture).

    My patch has also a blue border, "but one should mention that it's in no way related to the blue borders of the late war types 10, 11 and 15." (that is what is writtin in the book )
    And those types have a PostWar Scribble Eye, and mine has a Almond-shaped eye like a type 3.

    I want to be able to recognize the patches by myself and can say it's a WW2 one, postwar, which type it is and if it's a fake patch. Instead of asking people on the internet. Except this one because this is my first one and I want to know if I did my homework correctly.

    So is this a WW2 101st Airborne Patch type 3?

    Thank you in advance

    101st airborne patch type 3?101st airborne patch type 3?
    101st airborne patch type 3?

  2. #2
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Robert

    We have a number of members here who can help you out (not my area). Give it a bit of time, someone should be around to see it. If nothing after a bit, you can bump the thread.

    Great to see you do your research. A great way to learn whether you are correct in your conclusions or not!
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  3. #3

    Default

    Yes it is a type 3.

    I wouldn't use the eye placement technique because these patches were massed produced. So you will find different eye placements.

    Nice patch!

  4. #4

    Default

    Hello Robert,

    Again based on the information found in Bando's book, by definition of differences between Type 3's and Type 4's,, this would be a Type 4.. The similarities between type 3 and 4 are the amoeba shaped eyes with no detail. These would have been made by different manufacturers so you will see in some cases eyes closer or further from the beak or slight variations on how the shape of the eyes comes out.. (This is mainly due to how the machines and sewing needles were aligned and calibrated) The main difference with the type 3 and 4 is that type 3 has an attached Airborne tab while Type 4's do not.. This example I believe is again very similar to the other patch that was posted and it could very well be a late war production that was used post WW2 into the 50's..

    The reference book you show, I have not held in hand before but based on the photo and the caption on the previous page, the author is claiming that the insignia on the opposite page where you have placed your example for comparison is a Type 3.. If the tab is attached to the patch in the book, then yes this is a Type 3, the example you placed for comparison is a Type 4, since the Airborne Tab is not attached and based on the pictures it does not appear that a tab was ever attached and then removed... There would be some indication or cuts in the thread.. Not seeing that...


    One other note that I want to mention.. In Mark Bando's book he clearly states that each of the insignia that is presented has provenance to a WW2 veteran, one of the main reasons for his numbering system. Since he had obtained so many different variations from veterans, the necessity to break them down by type was needed. There are 9 most common variations of the WW2 patches...


    Hope others will once again provide their analysis and thoughts, but form what I am seeing, it looks identical to the previous patch posted...

    Smitty

  5. #5

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    If Rakkasan says its a type 4 I would believe him. These types are hard to distinguish sometimes

  6. #6

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    This is the book that I use:
    101st airborne patch type 3?

  7. #7

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    Robert,

    Looks like a very nice book.. When I went to Normandy several years ago, one of the museums I went to had a bookstore with hundreds of wonderful reference books.. I would have needed a boat to get them all back to the US..

    @ John4022: I appreciate your confidence in me making the proper identification.. It has been extremely challenging at times and I doubt myself many times.. One of the reasons why I rely on others to confirm or deny my suspicions..

    Smitty

  8. #8

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    Robert, I might need to look into getting that book. I just use Bandos website, not the best of pictures there but it is a nice quick reference. Is there a lot of nice close up pictures of the patches?

    Smitty, you and me both Yesterday I had to email Allan H over on the USMF to make sure a 506th oval I bought was real. I was looking at so many of them I felt like my head was going to explode.

  9. #9
    RMD
    RMD is offline
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    Hey there, Robert1895.

    ... Am I mistaken in thinking that this patch would be connected, by some corner threading, to another patch that reads, Airborne?

  10. #10

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    RMD,

    You are correct, there would be a separate AIRBORNE tab that would be sewn above the shield.. There were several manufacturers of this particular insignia in WW2 and in some cases the tab was already attached. But there are also versions where the tab was not attached and was shipped separately to the units. In some cases the AIRBORNE insignia was made by another company and prior to shipment to the unit, those patches were sent to the company making the other portion of the patch in order for them to be shipped together to the units...

    Now also in this particular case as mentioned, surplus insignia was left over from WW2 and it carried over to be worn in the 50's. When the 101st was reactivated in the states in the 50's it was a training unit and only wore the Eagle.. No Airborne tab until 1956 when the Division was returned to full Airborne status and then replacements and Soldiers assigned to the division once again wore the Eagle and Airborne Tab together.. It has been this way since 1956..

    I was a trooper in the 101st in the 80's and I still have my original 101st patch and paraglider garrison cap insignia that I wore with my dress uniform as well as all my subdued insignia that I wore on my jungle fatigues and camo fatigues..


    Hope that answered your question RMD..

    Smitty

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