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Any idea what this swallow tail flag is PLEASE

Article about: Hi, I aquired this flag a few years ago and recently rediscovered it in a box in the garage. Can anyone out there ID it please. Regards Michael Ryan

  1. #11

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    Looks like Jerry nailed it. Can't get too much better an ID than it's brother being used in a photo!

    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  2. #12

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    Hi Jerry, Very many thanks for your reply, information and photo. The flag is of a quality that I would expect for a flag utilised by a Guards Regiment. Let me know when you have paid for your new car and we can probably do a deal. It isn't going anywhere fast. Alternatively, I am not averse to some sort of trade??
    With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael

  3. #13

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    Quote by Michael Ryan View Post
    Hi Jerry, Very many thanks for your reply, information and photo. The flag is of a quality that I would expect for a flag utilised by a Guards Regiment. Let me know when you have paid for your new car and we can probably do a deal. It isn't going anywhere fast. Alternatively, I am not averse to some sort of trade??
    With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael
    Sounds great Michael. I am up for a trade of some sort, perhaps something you want that I might have. I know you collect British headgear though I guess you might have all you need in that area. I certainly have a few that could be swapped to you if you are interested. I think if we have some idea what sort of price range your thinking we can go from there. I'll send you a pm and see if we can work something out.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  4. #14

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    Quote by duska View Post
    Can't say what the flag is, but the three chevronels is the arms for Jestyn ap Gwrgan, now used by Glamorgan, and ofner na ofno angau in English is Fear him who fears not death.
    It is the reply given by a welsh prince to the then king of England Edgar.

    Ivor Bach who was the ancestor of the welsh Prince and bore this motto on his standard when he attacked Cardiff Castle under its second Norman lord, as recounted in the poem Cardiff Castle by Taliesin ab Iolo Morganwg.
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    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  5. #15

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    Hi Jery, Thank you once again for both the information and the photos. I was trying to see what the devices were on the other (maroon) flags were as they look a lot like the flag in my other identification request posts??
    Cheers Michael

  6. #16

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    I undertook a trade with Micheal and I am very pleased to say that this -along with the huge RWF sweetheart- are now part of my collection.

    It is such a beautiful item, the construction is superb and cannot be faulted, with bullion wire around the chevrons and fine embroidery on the dragons.

    I cannot as yet date precisely it as the illustration from the book showing the WWI versions show them as having a slightly different shape but it is only an illustration and not a photograph whilst the other examples that are still used for the trooping the colour do match it in detail. However I do not know if they are the original great war examples or if they have been remanufactured in more recent times.

    Certainly there is no doubt that this is an original item used by the 8th Company, 2nd Battalion of the Welsh Guards.

    Sometimes colours are retired from service and are presented to a notable of the regiment, though most end up in either the regimental museum or a chapel associated with them. I have no idea how this set ended up away from the Welsh Guards, perhaps they were presented to a retiring officer or last commander -as in the case of the C company RWF standard I own which went to him when the company was disbanded- or it is possible it went to the Colour sergeant who had carried this prior to the demise of the 2nd and 3rd BN's in the post WWII period. The 3rd Bn (& perhaps 2nd) was only formed during WWII with the 1st & 2nd Bn's being part of the Guards Armoured division who were part of the relief at Arnheim. I have been told that the 2nd BN also existed during WWI but have yet to confirm this from any research, though it seems likely that this company colour is circa WWII in date and can be no newer than the 2nd's placement in suspended animation in the immediate post WWII period

    History of the Regiment - British Army Website

    On inception the Regiment took its place alongside the English Grenadier Guards and Coldstream Guards, the Scots Guards and the Irish Guards. Two days later, the Battalion mounted its first King's Guard at Buckingham Palace on 1 March 1915 - St David's Day.
    On 17 August 1915 the 1st Battalion sailed for France and formed part of the Guards Division. Its first battle was fought at Loos on 27 September 1915 and the Regiment's first Victoria Cross was won by Sergeant Robert Bye at Pilckem in July 1917.
    Remnants of 2 Company, 3rd Battalion Welsh Guards at Arce Between the wars the 1st Battalion was stationed in Cologne, Egypt and Gibraltar, where it was at the outbreak of war in 1939.
    The Regiment was expanded to three Battalions during World War II. The 1st Battalion fought in all the campaigns of North West Europe. The 2nd Battalion was formed in 1939 and fought in Boulogne in 1940, whilst the 1st Battalion was in Belgium as part of the British Expeditionary Force.

    In May 1940, at the Battle of Arras, the Regiment's second Victoria Cross was won by Lieutenant the Hon Christopher Furness, who was killed in action. In 1941, a 3rd Battalion was raised and fought throughout the Tunisian and Italian Campaigns.
    13 Troop 2 Welsh Guards, Enchade Holland Meanwhile, the 1st and 2nd Battalion formed part of the Guards Armoured Division - the 1st Battalion as infantry and the 2nd Battalion as an Armoured Battalion. The two Battalions working together were the first troops to re-enter Brussels on 3 September 1944 after an advance of 100 miles in one day, in what was described as "an armoured dash unequalled for speed in this or any other war".
    Shortly after the war, the 3rd Battalion was disbanded and the 2nd Battalion was placed in suspended animation. In the second half of the last century the 1st Battalion served in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Palestine, Egypt, Germany, Aden, Cyprus and Belize, as well as forming part of the task force that fought in the Falklands campaign in 1982. The Battle Honour for which is now borne on the colours.
    Exercises have been conducted all around the world, including in the USA, Canada, Greece, Belize, Norway, Kenya, Morocco, Gibraltar, Macedonia, Poland and France.
    In the last ten years the 1st Battalion has deployed on Operations on two tours of Bosnia and tours of Northern Ireland, Iraq, Kosovo as well as two operational tours in Afghanistan in 2009 and 2012.
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    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

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