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help me id a jolly roger flag

Article about: hello everyone. can anyone help me id this flag. i purchased it from a us navy verteran of ww2 in the pacific. is this a us destroyer flag? i have never seen one before. any input will be he

  1. #1

    Default help me id a jolly roger flag

    hello everyone. can anyone help me id this flag. i purchased it from a us navy verteran of ww2 in the pacific. is this a us destroyer flag? i have never seen one before. any input will be helpfull.the fabric was tested and we beleive it is ww2 or before.and will not glow under uv light. thank you in advance.
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  2. #2
    ?

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Looks quite modern to me

  3. #3
    ?

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Could be ww2, or made of old cloth. I'm not a us maritime expert so I don't know if they used these or not. I wouldn't say it's a fake outright,though. Lets wait for someone who knows more about these.
    Dean.

  4. #4

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Captain Jack Sparrow's flag?

  5. #5

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Quote by LizardKing View Post
    Captain Jack Sparrow's flag?
    Lol!! I was just going to say that!!

  6. #6

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Actually, I'm quite surprised that the Navy Veteran agreed to Sell it to you. This flag is, indeed, WWII era-give or take a few years. The clip and the rope construction tell that much. As to what these flags were used for...well, they have a tradition in the US Navy to hoist this flag during the crossing of the Equator and it is flown to show that King Neptune is aboard the ship to muster in the new Shellbacks for crossing the Equator, or "Crossing the Line" as it is known. (Shellbacks are anyone on board a ship that has crossed the Equator before, and they are initiated into the honor with a very elaborate and fancy affair-with certificates being issued, etc. by King Neptune himself-or a suitable Officer,preferably the Captain himself if he's not too busy,dressed in the Guise of King Neptune, doing the honor). Wiki has a good article on it explaining it in more depth-take a read, it is an interesting ceremony and one that will never be forgotten by anyone who has participated in one.
    Line-crossing ceremony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Personally, I have never seen another wartime era Navy Jolly Roger flag being available, as they are generally quite coveted and almost Never able to be purchased. A shame that you do not know which Navy ship this flag was used on-is it marked anywhere? It is a nice find, for sure, and certainly a rare thing!
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  7. #7

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Actually, I'm quite surprised that the Navy Veteran agreed to Sell it to you. This flag is, indeed, WWII era-give or take a few years. The clip and the rope construction tell that much. As to what these flags were used for...well, they have a tradition in the US Navy to hoist this flag during the crossing of the Equator and it is flown to show that King Neptune is aboard the ship to muster in the new Shellbacks for crossing the Equator, or "Crossing the Line" as it is known. (Shellbacks are anyone on board a ship that has crossed the Equator before, and they are initiated into the honor with a very elaborate and fancy affair-with certificates being issued, etc. by King Neptune himself-or a suitable Officer,preferably the Captain himself if he's not too busy,dressed in the Guise of King Neptune, doing the honor). Wiki has a good article on it explaining it in more depth-take a read, it is an interesting ceremony and one that will never be forgotten by anyone who has participated in one.
    Line-crossing ceremony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Personally, I have never seen another wartime era Navy Jolly Roger flag being available, as they are generally quite coveted and almost Never able to be purchased. A shame that you do not know which Navy ship this flag was used on-is it marked anywhere? It is a nice find, for sure, and certainly a rare thing!
    I really love this forum, just a wealth of knowledge and extreme quality veterans of this hobby. That is a very exquisite representation of Maritime tradition and ceremony. I was Marine recon 1989-1993 and a Chaplain 1994-2001 my Dad was a CWO-4 USN 1964-1986, my Grandfather USAAF 8th 367th bomber group 1941-1945 USAF 1947-1963, Great Grandfather USMC 1916-1919 6TH Machine gun unit, the military men in my family tree going back to Rev-war and I never knew that, that is amazing. Thankyou. God speed to the shellbacks, OOhrah.

  8. #8

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Good info Wagriff! My Grandfather was a sailor and crossed the equator three times during WW2 and told me of these initiations , it was definitely better to be on the giving end (shellback) than those receiving the initiation(pollywog)! I have an original photo they took during one of these events on his ship. The second picture is a certificate that was issued to Louis May Jr. When he crossed the equator, he was with the 31st infantry div. in the Philippines
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  9. #9

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    G'day fella's
    Just for interests sake here's some "Jolly Rogers" from various Nations used as Submarine kill flags during WW2. (the first one is from a ASW frigate)


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    And possibly the most famous example. HMS Conqueror sailing into port after the sinking of the ARA General Belgrano (ex Brooklyn class light cruiser USS Phoenix) during the Falklands conflict of 1982.

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    The flying of this flag was rather controversial at the time.

    Cheers all
    Dave

  10. #10

    Default Re: help me id a jolly roger flag

    Quote by Thanatos View Post
    . . . here's some "Jolly Rogers" from various Nations used as Submarine kill flags during WW2. (the first one is from a ASW frigate) . . .
    The second picture is the Polish submarine ORP Sokół (Falcon). Along with its sister boat the ORP Dzik (Wild Boar) this pair did considerable damage to the German and Italian navies during WW2. With a combined sunk or damaged tally of 37 enemy vessels totaling over 100,000 tons they became known as the "Terrible Twins".

    Here are recreated images of the Jolly Rogers from both ships, with an explanation of the significance of the various symbols:

    Flag of ORP Sokół:

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    Flag of the ORP Dzik:

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    white bars: sunk enemy merchant ships
    red bars: sunk enemy warships
    red stars: gunfire combat engagements
    crossed sabers: boarding of enemy ships
    dog: Operation Husky (invasion of Sicily 1943)
    grating: forced net barrier

    And some period pics:

    ORP Dzik:

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    ORP Sokół:

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    Cheers,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

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