Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 62

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey/Study

Article about: All, For those who follow NMB, please forgive the repeat, but to everyone else: I began collecting Mantetsu blade dates & serial numbers. It was originally inteded to try to determine if

  1. #1

    Default Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey/Study

    All,

    For those who follow NMB, please forgive the repeat, but to everyone else: I began collecting Mantetsu blade dates & serial numbers. It was originally inteded to try to determine if there was a noticable system of using the katakana (and hiragana) kanji flowing through the chart in a logical manner. In the process I have found a small number of quite interesting things, like a Mantetsu-made wakizashi; a '45 blade with a totally different slogan (not 100% sure it's Mantetsu, but preponderance of evidence points to it); and the discovery that hiragana kanji were used in addition to katakana.

    SO, if you possess a Mantetsu blade that has not already been recorded on NMB, please post pics of the date and the nakago mune with serial number. Even if you no longer own the blade, but have the data, I'll take it.

    The full discussion at NMB can be found at this link, including pics of the unique '45 blade. Oh, and a '39 blade with no serial number at all.

    Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey - Military Swords of Japan - Nihonto Message Board

    Thanks for your contributions, in advance!

    I don't see a way to upload a .docx, or I'd post the data sheet (over 80 blades). You can download a copy of it from the NMB thread.

  2. #2
    ?

    Default

    Hey Bruce,
    I don't believe I saw the Mantetsu I used to have at NMB. Made in Spring 1941 with Ta 313. Hope this helps.

    Tom
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

  3. #3
    ?

    Default

    pics.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

  4. #4

    Default

    Excellent Tom, thanks, I didn’t have that one!

  5. #5

    Default

    Looking for some help/opinion on this one. Our beloved Showa22 is selling this on fleabay. His reputation alone should be enough for me to reject this as legit, but the blade and file marks both look like Mantetsu work. The nakago is too clean for a '38, as claimed, but then we know Showa22 cleans blades. Comparing the mei to Ohmura's '38 and another '38 I have pics of, is inconclusive as all 3 are different from each other. The Dalian stamp is close and easiest to fake. The "N" of the serial number is EXACTLY identical to the other "N" number I have. I don't like how his showa kanji are scrunched over to the far side.

    Another problem I have is the flat nakago mune. My experience, so far, is that flat mune were made for Type 3, Rinji model fittings, but this is in Type 98 fittings (Ok, we already know Showa22 re-fits all sorts of fittings) but if you look at the seppa and tsuba, they have flat-topped holes for the nakago!

    Does ANYONE have a Type 98 with flat-topped nakago mune and appropriately fitted seppa and tsuba? That would help in my study of the issue, along with trying to decide what to think about this gunto!
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

  6. #6

    Default

    AND I should have done some research first. I just found I Mantetsu blade went back and found a ‘38 N 206 and it’s set up in Type 98 fittings AND has a flat mune. It seems the rounded mune must have started at a later date.

  7. #7

    Default

    Updates:

    Over 140 blades documented. Still less than .5% of the total number of blades made, so analysis is almost silly at this point. But, still almost half of the katakana used were in the "A's". Over 110 of them were "Spring" which might mean they were putting "spring" on regardless of actual season (although there are several "autumns" in '42). The earliest '38s and '39s had a "winter" and several "autumn", so it seems they began using actual seasons.

    The "lines" of serial numbers in each year:
    39 - 4
    40 - 9
    41 - 11
    42 - 7
    43 - 18
    44 - 5
    45 - two kanji on 1 blade

    4-digit serial numbers are found in '42,'43, and '44.

    "Nan" stamps start appearing on '43. "Ren" stamps are mostly '44, with 1 known in '43 (so probably began late '43). Ohmura specualates these come from the Nanman Arsenal (Japanese name for the Mukden factory). It is my theory that these indidate that Mantetsu was supplying unfinished blades to Nanman just as they were supplying them to the Tokyo arsenal (as revealed by Nick Komiya). The dates line up perfectly as the order Nick found was dated 1943. Another interesting tidbit on these, is there are a couple of them (I only have picture of 1) with a "I" below the Ren. It seems to be the "rail" emblem from the center of the SMR raliway stamp, missing the circular "M" normally around the "I". Pure speculation, but could this be indicating the blade came from SMR but not made or finished by Mantetsu? Ohmura believes Mantetsu taught Nanman how to make blades the Mantetsu way, but he states that he doesn't know if Nanman was actually making them.

    More work to do. Latest version 1.5 available. PM for a copy (donít know how to link a Word Doc)

  8. #8

    Default

    I've updated the Mantetsu Study Charts with tabulations on blades with Nan, Ren, Ren/工, and W stamps.

    Out of 32 '43s, 14 have Nan stamps (and 1 '44 has it)
    Of 11 '44s, 8 are Ren stamped, with 3 Ren/工.
    I have 8 blades W stamped - 4 '42 (all Koa), 3 '43, and 1 '44

    If our theory on the source of the W stamp being the Tokyo Arsenal finishing blades supplied by Mantetsu, as per Nick Komiya's document, it's clear the practice was in place a couple of years before the document's date of 1944. I suspect there were orders made in the previous years, and this single document is the only one we have knowledge of.

    The existance of Koa Isshin blades in '43 & '44 raise the question of WHO was making blades with the Nan and Ren stamps. One option is that the SMR Mantetsu factory was making them all, and for some reason was making both Koa and non-Koa blades simultaneously. Another option is that, per Ohmura's theory, Mantetsu had taught the Mukden arsenal to make blades the Mantesu way and blades marked with Nan, Ren, and Ren/工 are Mukden manufactured. Option 3 is that Mantetsu was supplying unfinished blades to Mukden just as they were to Tokyo, and the finished blades were stamped by Mukden accordingly. BUT we have 2 '43s with BOTH a Nan and a W stamp, and 1 '44 with both stamps!!! This COULD bring us back to option 1, with SMR Mantetsu making them all and using Nan, Ren, Ren/工, and W stamps for reasons yet unknown.

    So, still very little facts, and much speculation, but it's been fun chasing it down. The document is too large to upload, so PM me if you'd like the updated version.

  9. #9

    Default

    Here are a few pics of mine
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  

    Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  


  10. #10

    Default

    Thanks Geoff, I've added your pictures to my files.

    Geoff's has the "Nan" stamp discussed above. I've attached some examples of the "Ren" and "Ren/工" for those not familiar.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study   Attention Mantetsu Owners:  A Survey/Study  


Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Very Unusual "Konan Essei" Mantetsu

    In Japanese Militaria
    12-15-2019, 09:34 PM
  2. Dad's Mantetsu Koa Issin

    In Japanese Militaria
    08-29-2017, 08:00 PM
  3. Pre war soldat at attention.

    In German photographs & Postcards
    06-08-2017, 04:16 PM
  4. 10-11-2010, 05:39 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •