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The Evolution of the IJA’s Type 30/38 Rifle Ammunition Pouches and Belt (1897-1945)

Article about: The Evolution of the IJA’s Type 30/38 Rifle Ammunition Pouches and Belt (1897-1945) There's more to it than you ever knew Another IJA item typically underappreciated by collectors, because o

  1. #21
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    Another fantastically well put together, illustrated and informative thread ! Many thanks Nick .
    REGARDS AL

    We are the Pilgrims , master, we shall go
    Always a little further : it may be
    Beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow
    Across that angry or that glimmering sea...

  2. #22

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    Hello Nick,

    I have absolutely no interest in anything Japanese but your article was very well put together and super informative with great examples and illustrations that I sat down and read it. I now have a more than basic knowledge of an area of interest that didn't interest me. That is saying a lot if you can teach an old Heer cloth collector about something else!!

    Great work. You are an asset to the collecting community and this forum!

    Fred Green

  3. #23

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    Fred, good to know you are here as well. For the most part I collect the same items as you do from the Heer, so it is very flattering to learn that people like you who had no interest in Japanese items can also enjoy the read, thanks.

  4. #24

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    Quote by nick komiya View Post
    Manufacturers of Leather Pouches

    I gave manufacturer information for the rubberized version, so here is some information on the leather version makers.

    There were two major companies; 山陽皮革株式会社 (Sanyo Leather Co in Himeji, Hyogo) and日本皮革株式会社 (Japan Leather Co in Osaka). The Osaka depot seem to have split orders equally between these two firms.

    1. Sanyo Leather, according to a 1939 report had just over 300 employees and could produce approx. 5000 sets of ammo pouches monthly. 70% of their sewing work was supplied by their contractor Nishino Co. (西野商店). See photo below for how they marked their products.

    2. Japan Leather, had about 120 employees in 1939 and also had a monthly capacity of approx. 5000 sets. I am almost certain that their marking was the circular one, but I have not found yet clear enough photos of the logo to confirm this.
    Nick, I'm positive that the circular marking is a stylized marking of the Sanyo maker

  5. #25

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    I've noted that the early rear ammo pouches not only have the folding screwdriver pouch on the left side but some initially used a smaller oiler evidenced by the abandoned stitch holes inside the oiler area. I have a couple of oilers that fit that pattern perfectly and here are some photos of such a pouch and my oilers
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  6. #26

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    Yes, oiler specs also evolved, but as I mentioned in post 12, I chose not to get into that. However, the point you raised is already explained in post 7 (see the photos comparing before and after).

    On the circular marking, please then provide a clear closeup photo of the marking so we can verify your statement, as all my articles make a point of offering verifiable fact. I have already shown 2 clear examples of the stylized logos for Sanyo in post 13, so it is highly unlikely that they used different logos concurrently.
    Last edited by nick komiya; 08-19-2017 at 10:58 PM.

  7. #27

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    Sorry I missed that point on the oiler in post 7. Very well done study on these pouches!
    On the circular Sanyo mark I found this photo in my files but may have a better one elsewhere. I'll post it as well when and if I find it. Hopefully you can see enough detail from this image.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #28

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    Thank you for the photo. The marking is still not clear enough to be legible, but it does appear highly likely that the character on top is San 山. So chances are high that clearer photos will confirm the circular logo also to be a Sanyo. In that case, we have two examples dated to 1940 with circular logos and two with Sanyo spelled out more close to normal fonts, of which one is dated 1942. This would suggest a logo change for Sanyo between 1940 and 1942, in which the circular type is the earlier version.

    That in turn means, however, I have no examples of markings for the other company, 日本皮革株式会社 (Japan Leather Co in Osaka). Do you have any marking photos from pouches not shown in post 13 that can be for Japan Leather?

  9. #29

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    Here are a couple more photos of the markings in this rear pouch. All three characters of the Sanyo marking are incorporated in this stylized marking. I hope you can make these out better. I do have pouches and holsters with other markings but I don't think I have any for the Japan Leather Co.
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  10. #30

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    Sanyo (Mountain Sun) would not be 3 characters but only 2, saying 山陽 . Unfortunately the lower character is badly smudged in these photos to make out, but as the earlier photo showed the first character was quite clearly "Mountain", we can safely assume it is an earlier version of the Sanyo logo. We should then keep an eye open on the year of manufacture associated with this circular logo to determine when they switched to the later style logo (in 1940, 41 or 42), as that will allow collectors to date their pouches even when the stamped year is not legible.

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