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Japanese nco sword from ww2

Article about: http://collectorsmilitaria.com/a_ver...ord_062612.htm http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewt...p?f=50&t=13229

  1. #31

  2. #32

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    If you believe everything you read on line when it comes to rare and unusual, your pocket will be lightened with nothing to show for it except scrap metal. The first link posts another total fake with an incorrect scabbard . The blade does not even have a habaki. This prototype stuff is total nonsense as none of these ever appeared during the great period of buying swords from vets from the late 1960's thru the early 90's. There are many knowlegable members here who have attempted to be honest with you. If you wish to not believe the information you asked for, why ask? if you are happy with your "RARE PROTOTYPE" so be it.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    Sorry bob, didn't mean to offend you...I was just curious.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    Quote by pereirafl View Post
    Sorry bob, didn't mean to offend you...I was just curious.
    No offense taken. The sword in your first link is proof positive that these are fakes. It is likely a 1st generation of these reproductions.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  5. #35
    ?

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    Hello Filipe,

    Thank you for the updated links. I've reviewed both the photos supplied through the one and the comments in relation to that sword through the other. Having done so I must respectfully disagree both with Bill Rannow's assessment that his sword is a rare prototype and the sentiments of those who support that position. Perhaps those supporting members, although well versed in the nuances of traditionally made swords, were less so when it comes to machine made gunto. You will also note that support for his position on that forum is not unanimous.

    Aside from several physical characteristics of the sword, that I'll address momentarily, I think it's important to reflect upon the age in which these swords were made. The Japanese military was then master of all it surveyed. They had recently embarked upon a massive program of militarization that was soon to see them sweep across Asia in unprecedented numbers at a speed never before seen in that part of the world.

    Included in that period of military mobilization was what I'll refer to as a revival of the military spirit, Bushido, also know as the Way of the Warrior. The iconic symbol of that spirit was the sword. Steeped in Japanese tradition the sword was making a comeback. More correctly I should say that the "samurai" style sword was making a revival. Replacing western style swords then in use in the IJA and IJN, the Type 94 (then later the Type 98) Shin-gunto, Type 97 Kai-gunto and Type 95 NCO were all visual representations of the swords of the samurai spirit. Examinations of these types of swords in their early configurations clearly shows great attention to detail and quality of manufacture. Even the mass produced NCO sword, considered by many to be the junior member of that trio, was a sturdy tool well designed and made for it's ultimate purpose. Those early first run copper tsuka were no exception. Not till years later when some raw materials were scarce and the tide of war had turned against them did the various late war poorly constructed versions begin to appear.

    Now have a look again at the linked sword. The brass tsuka is lacking in detail and appears to me to be a poorly cast copy. The tsuba lacks the details and finish of a true Japanese produced piece of that time frame. The rather lacklustre blade is without habaki, common to all blades of that type. Those parts simply do not appear to be legitimate components of a treasured military icon.

    There is also a reference made in that linked thread to a similarly looking prototype in Dawson's book. I've reviewed that reference and note the sword in question is classified as a "possible" prototype. Nothing was confirmed in that regard. The sword is described as having a copper coated aluminium tsuka, copper coated aluminium tsuba, a bare aluminium blade and a painted aluminium scabbard. None of that is comparable in my mind to the Rannow prototype. I also ask myself that if the vast majority of the 6000 or so legitimate copper tsuka Type 95 have disappeared what are the chances of a near mint poorly made prototype showing up? Remotely possible Yes, probable No, and that still doesn't reconcile the use of brass in the tsuka construction. Something seen most often in Chinese made reproductions.

    Now, you asked about serial numbers. Any and all I have read about or seen on the copper tsuka versions were four digits. The range known to exist, and mentioned by Dawson, was a low of #4 to a high of #6561. Aluminium tsuka versions routinely have 6 digit numbers. I cannot think of a need for a serial number of any sort on a prototype much less a six digit number.

    Concluding, I'm of the opinion that both the sword shown in this thread and Rannow's are reproduction pieces. I hasten to add that other will no doubt take a different view and as I've said, I'm not an expert nor authority on swords but based upon what I know at this point in time logic leads me to the position I take with regards to brass tsuka Type 95 swords.

    Regards,
    Stu

  6. #36

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	509755Dear Stu W,

    You helped me once with a fake NCO Shin Gunto, and if you don't mind, I'm asking for your help again.
    It was offered to me an Officer's Shin Gunto and it seems real to me. After my last post, I bought the richard fuller's book and read it, and it really helped me. The pictures are below. The only thing that concerns me is the blade width: 2.5 cm. What do you think about it?

    Kind regards,

    Felipe

  7. #37

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    From the images, I can not find any fault with this sword. It appears to be a standard non traditional IJA officer's sword from WW2. Non traditional is defined as not a laminated water tempered blade-in other words, mass produced.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    Thanks bob! How much do you think one of these might worth?

  9. #39
    ?

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    From the images, I can not find any fault with this sword. It appears to be a standard non traditional IJA officer's sword from WW2. Non traditional is defined as not a laminated water tempered blade-in other words, mass produced.
    I agree with Bob's assessment.

    As to value, 1000 +/- USD depending on several factors such as the condition of the blade edge. Some of the original seppa appear to be missing.

    Regards,
    Stu

  10. #40
    ?

    Default Re: Japanese nco sword from ww2

    A full set of seppa look like this ...
    Click image for larger version. 

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