Small Japanese Rising Flag
Hi,
Looking for help authenticating this Japanese flag I got in a lot of items. It measures roughly 16 1/2 inches by 13 inches. Based on some other forum's and Nick's article I think it may be a civilian/personal flag but any help appreciated.
Thanks!
Civilian patriotic decoration flag to adorn the street when sending a soldier off to war. Probably used in a city with a naval port, because of the off center sun. Check with black light to see whether it is of wartime manufacture. Used as shown below.
Thanks Nick! Much appreciated. Just a quick question. I've heard of bayonet flags or personal flags that were similar size and could be commercially purchased that soldiers would bring into battle. I've seen these flags on other forums and for sale on some sites. Is there a difference between the two or just impossible to tell the difference?by nick komiya
Here are the flags in reference:
1) Small Japanese flag
2) Original Japanese WWII Kamikaze Pilot Grouping with Photo, Service Rec – International Military Antiques
3) Rare WWII Japanese Imperial Naval Landing Forces Rifle Flag: Flying Tiger Antiques Online Store
All the links you provided feature the same kind of flag that you have, but with a fraudulent spin to make “Civilian Party Decoration” flags more sexy. You should immediately walk away from any dealer selling them as “Bayonet flags”, as that merely demonstrates his total ignorance, which likely also applies to all items he sells.
Also, I was invited to write for this forum only from 2015, so threads predating my joining are unfortunately full of myths and misconceptions, many of which I have hopefully rectified with some success since then.
There was no such thing as a bayonet flag. What got mistaken as such were the Yosegaki flags a soldier got from his relatives and friends, featuring their words of well-wishing as they sent him off to war. In the field, these were the only tangible connection a soldier had to home and his loved ones, apart from some occasional postcards, so he carried them around in his bread-bag or inside his helmet like a good luck charm. When all hope was lost in battle and he had to make his final bayonet charge to certain death, some soldiers would take this flag out and tie it to his rifle in a gesture of sharing the final moments of his life with his friends and loved ones. Others might make a headband with a fierce slogan to suppress his fears. Flags on a bayonet or headband were thus more of a death rite and nothing done as routine, as you only make yourself stand out as a target. It is because these flags represented a soldier’s gesture of reaching out to his loved ones waiting back home at the moment of death, returning of such flags of the KIAs can bring such closure to the bereaved families even today.
There were no flags routinely attached to rifles in WW2, but in the days preceding radio communication, flags were a tactical necessity, and as such, battalion flags were carried in the field attached to the rifle, however, not crudely attached to a bayonet but to a special flag pole attachment as shown below. Also after capturing an enemy position, waving a flag attached to a rifle would have sent the “all clear” message to the following troops.
And, while the Japanese still had air superiority, having a flag handy not to get mistakenly strafed by a friendly plane would have been a necessary precaution when marching, but those tiny "party decoration" flags would have been useless for such needs.
Battalion flag attachment method as of Feb. 1898 shown below.
Last edited by Nick Komiya; 02-05-2022 at 11:29 PM.
Oh okay thanks for the info Nick. By the way I did the blacklight test and all came back good.
I was just curious about there being no such thing as a bayonet flag and did some quick internet searches and found these photos. While not all are attached to flags could you explain them?
(front row there are some smaller flags and back right there is a smaller rising sun flag)
80-CF-1063-5: Captured U.S. and Japanese Flags
These were captured along with a Japanese sub.
Also just as an aside - International Military Antiques is a pretty large company. I find it hard to believe that they would advertise the flag the way they have done so without some sort of evidence/reasoning.
Last edited by rd416; 02-06-2022 at 06:35 AM.
Those look to me like the famous “forestock flags” — not bayonet flags!!
(^_*)
Seriously? I would trust a native-Japanese’s (Nick) informed and researched opinion over any non-Japanese reputable militaria company’s opinion. Just as there are expert German and Czech Republic collectors of Plains Indian artifacts and regalia … I’d trust what a Blackfoot pow wow dancer says when any difference of nomenclature (and “correction of the record”) arises.
— Guy
The aside was not meant as declaration of which opinion I was trusting. it was more so a sense of surprise regarding the comments surrounding "ignorance" or lack of research. Like I said before IMA is a pretty well known company. Although I have not had any experience with them I would find it hard to believe that a company of that size would put no thought or effort into their listings (especially given they have a lifetime authenticity guarantee) so there must have been a reason why they listed as such. Whether their final selling point is true or not - I'll leave that up to someone with more knowledge on the subject. But if they are incorrect then perhaps this should be pointed out to them.
Was just trying to ask questions to learn more. Wasn't trying to question anyone's knowledge
Just as a correction - I said in my earlier post "reputable company" when I should have said "large". I made the mistake of associating size and success with their reputation. Corrected this in the earlier post as well
Of course those are not bayonet flags. One photo shows a soldier with an improvised flag attached to his rifle for avoiding friendly fire in close quarter fighting like in the city of Shanghai. In such a urban area, a small flag would have been sufficient. The other photo is a staged PR photo of a conquest of some enemy stronghold, where fresh flags were used as props.
As I already explained, troops would have carried some flags for staking out areas, identification during air cover, etc. Such flags may get attached to rifles on occasion, but cannot be called bayonet flags.
GIs probably pictured Japanese soldiers attacking with flags on their bayonets, because they were exposed to these frightful and desperate "Banzai attacks", but to claim that there were little bayonet flags for attacks is shear ignorance.
Those are only $10 "Party decoration" flags, but dealers know that selling them as "Banzai Attack Bayonet Flags" will do wonders.
Here is a depiction of a scene from the end of the war taken from a scale model kit. This is where the myth of bayonet flags comes from.
Ah I see. The explanation and patience is much appreciated Nick!
Best,
RD
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