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What were the regulations for the Army civilian employees to carry swords?

Article about: What were the regulations for the Army civilian employees 軍属 to carry swords? Is it true that certain patterns were specifically designed for those people? Thanks!

  1. #1

    Default What were the regulations for the Army civilian employees to carry swords?

    What were the regulations for the Army civilian employees 軍属 to carry swords? Is it true that certain patterns were specifically designed for those people? Thanks!

  2. #2

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    Can not say that I have ever heard of that but I hope to learn the answer.
    Marty
    Fortune favors the brave 644th td

  3. #3

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    I believe colonial and civil officials had specifically designed swords representing the specific region/organisation they worked in. These swords appear almost always machine made and chromed.
    Best regards,
    Chris

    "Knowledge rests not upon truth alone, but upon error also."
    Carl Jung

  4. #4

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    Quote by christek View Post
    I believe colonial and civil officials had specifically designed swords representing the specific region/organisation they worked in. These swords appear almost always machine made and chromed.
    They are not Army civilian employees.

  5. #5

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    Quote by Sporter90 View Post
    They are not Army civilian employees.
    I have not heard of others carrying swords. Can you please give an example of the certain patterns you have heard about? I would be very interested. Cheers.
    Best regards,
    Chris

    "Knowledge rests not upon truth alone, but upon error also."
    Carl Jung

  6. #6

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    It depends on what era your question pertains to, but Iíll assume you are asking about WW2.

    Firstly, Gunzoku (軍属) or civilians in military service seems a confusing concept to some, so Iíll need to briefly explain what sort of people they were.

    There were 4 ranks of civilian grades in the army.

    1. Younin (傭人) were hired laborers. For instance, barbers and laundry workers were such civilians.

    2. Ko-in (雇員) hired admin helpers for the office (treated as equivalent of a Lance Corporal) .

    3. Hanin-kan (判任官), who were civilian equivalents of NCOs, carrying out legal, accounting, machine maintenance and other duties.

    4. Koutou-kan (高等官), who comprised the officer class equivalents from lieutenant to general. Such people included teachers of non-military subjects in military schools, interpreters, legal specialists, etc.

    Finally onto the sword regulations for the people above. There was a revision to the Army Gunzoku uniform regulations in August 1940, so I will simply quote the sword section from that.

    Koutou-kan were to wear the sword, tassel and sword belt of army officers equivalent in rank. Hanin-kan and Ko-in ranks were to wear an army company grade officer sword, belt and tassel. However, the rear side color of the belt and tassel were to be brown.

    So, no, Gunzoku did not have any special sword designs. The only special feature for Gunzoku were the brown backed belts and tassels for the Lance Corporal and NCO equivalents, who wore officer swords instead of a Type 95.

    Shown below is such a tassel for an army Ko-in or Hanin-kan civilian. Note that there is no additional backing color like blue or red.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture What were the regulations for the Army civilian employees to carry swords?  

  7. #7

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    Many thanks Nick. Very interesting information.
    Best regards,
    Chris

    "Knowledge rests not upon truth alone, but upon error also."
    Carl Jung

  8. #8

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    I meant the WW2 era. Thank you Nick for the answers!

    The brown tassel is alleged to be - and this is by the gunto collectors - a late war universal tassel for the Army and Navy! I was not so sure about it. I always had my doubts.

  9. #9
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    But this Gunzoku dressed military uniform like soldier and officer or civil ? Thanks

  10. #10

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    Quote by christek View Post
    I have not heard of others carrying swords. Can you please give an example of the certain patterns you have heard about? I would be very interested. Cheers.







    This is the so-called civilian employee's pattern. Again, I'm not so sure about it. These fittings are not rare.

    There must be enough number made for them to show up on the market frequently.

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