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ww2 japanese officer sword?

Article about: Hello all! its wonderful to join this forum and hope to learn lots from you all! Firstly i was wondering if anyone could give me some information on these two swords which i believe to be ww

  1. #1

    Default ww2 japanese officer sword?

    Hello all! its wonderful to join this forum and hope to learn lots from you all!

    Firstly i was wondering if anyone could give me some information on these two swords which i believe to be ww2 shin gunto officer swords, i did days of research but thought i would ask about further details or see what information the good people of WRF can provide incase i have gotten ill information or been miss led on value. Hoping some one can tell me/confirm type of sword, some info and hopefully give an estimate on value. I have provided several detailed photographs that will hopefully help, thanks so much guys !

    first sword measurments are 37 1/2" overall, 26 1/4 blade
    i was told both are late 1930's maybe 1939 ( i cant differentiate between these from the 1940-1944 swords)

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    second one is :
    38 1/2" overall, 27 1/2 blade

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  2. #2

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    Welcome Poker ... For concise and detailed replies I will move your thread to the Japanese Forum our Moderator Bob Coleman and associates will be able to better assist you. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  3. #3

    Default

    Both swords are circa 1943-1944 at a time where war shortages eliminated steel scabbards and changed to wood. Sword #1 is mising the leather field cover and the ring for hanging the sword. #2 is more complete. Both swords are missing some of the seppa, which are the thin washers found on both sides of the tsuba or sword guard. Both blades are factory made and not manufactured like a traditional laminated steel and water tempered blade.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  4. #4
    Rod
    Rod is offline
    ?

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    Hi,

    Yes, you have two Shin Gunto. There's no way to give an exact date like 1939 or 1940, that's just silly information.

    From your pics they appear to be in fair condition, both missing their hangar rings and sarute (loop to attach the tassel to the handle). The black colored scabbard is missing the entire hanger assembly and it probably had a leather cover originally. The sword with the handle off appears to be missing a couple of seppa (washers that keep the tsuba and entire assembly tight). The blade appears machine made to me but Bob or Stu are better equipped to speak on that. You would need to take better pictures of the blades to get some answers on that account.

    Overall they are nice collectible WW2 IJA Shin Gunto

  5. #5
    Rod
    Rod is offline
    ?

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    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    Both swords are circa 1943-1944 at a time where war shortages eliminated steel scabbards and changed to wood. Sword #1 is mising the leather field cover and the ring for hanging the sword. #2 is more complete. Both swords are missing some of the seppa, which are the thin washers found on both sides of the tsuba or sword guard. Both blades are factory made and not manufactured like a traditional laminated steel and water tempered blade.
    Excellent point about the wood Bob, I hadn't considered that.

    Thanks, Rod

  6. #6
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    Default

    Hello and Welcome,

    As has been mentioned you have two authentic Japanese Type 98 Japanese Army Officer swords. While neither is a million dollar masterpiece from yesteryear they both represent the efforts a brave man doing his duty in a time of great social unrest.

    Unless the nakago (tang) of a sword is dated you can only guess at the date of manufacture but it's reasonable to say that those blades were made late 1930s to mid 1940s.

    It is also possible that your first sword was issued with a metal scabbard due to the presence of a hole in the fuchi (collar) just behind the tsuba (hand guard) that was to accommodate the button for the release mechanism.

    I'll add two photos. One showing the hole I refer to and another showing what a dated nakago would look like.

    You can also have a look at this link for visual explanation of the parts of a gunto

    The name of each part of a GuntM

    Regards,
    Stu
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  7. #7

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    Hi Stu-
    I believe especially sword #1 has been pieced together. These form of unsigned low end machine made blades I would not expect to find any connection to the 1930's. At that time, the military officers were mounting antique or true gendaito in most cases. With the expansion of the Pacific War and an increased need for swords for new officers, the process was speeded up by the introduction of vaarious methods of machine made swords with the unmarked ones being the low end.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  8. #8
    ?

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    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    Hi Stu-
    I believe especially sword #1 has been pieced together. These form of unsigned low end machine made blades I would not expect to find any connection to the 1930's. At that time, the military officers were mounting antique or true gendaito in most cases. With the expansion of the Pacific War and an increased need for swords for new officers, the process was speeded up by the introduction of vaarious methods of machine made swords with the unmarked ones being the low end.
    Hi Bob,

    I don't disagree with that 30s is far less likely but would add that I included the late 30s comment because that would include the date of introduction of the Type 98. As the Japanese had already been in China for some time I think they were already ramping up mass production. Given that it's likely a parts piece so to speak the blade, mounts and scabbard could well have come from different time frames. The presence of the cut away tsuba leads me to think, as you do I believe, that these were not as issued but possibly assembled from available parts in times of great need and limited supply.

    Regards,
    Stu

  9. #9
    ?

    Default

    To clarify my other comment in which I used the word authentic, I simply meant they are period as opposed to post war reproductions.

    Perhaps I should have spent a little more time proof reading my response.

    Regards,
    Stu

  10. #10

    Default

    Thank you all for your valuable input it has brought much light and I now have a better understanding of things. You have all been very helpful

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