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ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication

Article about: guys i am being offered two swords coming out of a ww2 gun collection, seller states they are both in wooden scabbards , the first is 33" , looks to be in good condition, cleaned? post

  1. #1

    Default ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication

    guys i am being offered two swords coming out of a ww2 gun collection, seller states they are both in wooden scabbards , the first is 33" with marking , looks to be in good condition, cleaned? post war? or would this one be a pre war blade fitted to ww2 standards?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

  2. #2

    Default sword number 2

    here is sword number two, 35'' long, same type of wooden scabbard, different marking under grip, looks like a painted symbol or japanese writing?

    seller is asking 400 each, is this acceptable if hey are authentic?
    any help would greatly be appreciated
    thanks guys.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  

    ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication   ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  


  3. #3
    ?

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    Going by the pics, which are less than perfect, they are legit Shin Gunto. They are in later war field mounts, and the scabbards would have had removable leather covers. I don't like the tang on sword no.2 but that could be the angle from which the photograph was taken. Tangs need to be photo'd blade up, vertical, full length and not from an angle.
    Price wise, by UK standards these are very good prices and a bargain, I don't know about US prices. They are out of polish, so really of interest as militaria only. A proper polish runs at about $150 to $200 per INCH last time I looked.

  4. #4

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    They are both genuine WW2 made swords. Seki made low grade. The price is great. $400 each. You can't get good fake swords for this kind of money these days. I'd overlook the issues they both have, and buy them both.

    p.s. Do not quote the overall length. Japanese swords only measure the back length from the tip point to the back notch.

  5. #5

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    guys thank you for the information very much, i hope to pick these up soon and may be able to post more pictures of better quality then..

  6. #6

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    Don't recognize the smith name of the first one (but then I've never been good at that), but the paint on the second one are numbers - 4, one in "english" the other in Japanese. They were used during assembly to keep fitted parts together.

  7. #7

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    Quote by Bruce Pennington View Post
    Don't recognize the smith name of the first one (but then I've never been good at that), ...
    孫六
    Magoroku

    When I saw this engraving I thought it was a modern Chinese copy executed by an electric engraver (granted, the image is not that clear). A cursory Google search reveals a Magoroku Kanemoto 孫六金元... but I haven't found (yet) one just signed 孫六.

    IF this blade proves to be an actual Magoroku Kanemoto, here's what my teacher wrote back around 1984:
    Quote by Nakamura Taizaburo
    Comparatively, blades with a shallow ridge-line generally have a better cutting ability, although this can vary with the blade’s width. They are good at avoiding the energy absorption from softer straw targets and perform laudibly when cutting these. However, if the user gets his grip handling wrong such a blade can easily break. To give an example, the cutting ability of the blades made by Seki no Magoroku Kanemoto are said to be in the very top class of the best and finest swords, the saijo owazamono. One of the characteristics of the swords that he made was a shallow blade-ridge, meaning that they would pass through targets with ease. By comparison, the cutting edge of a dotanuki or that of the Mito school blades from the shin shinto period were objectively superior to a Kanemoto. However, when it comes to the cutting of fixed targets in suemono giri and dai giri the Kanemoto could slice through five bundles of straw whereas the former blades would peak at only three. This is down to the fact that blades with a high shinogi suffer considerably from the energy absorption caused by soft targets and proves that, even if the blade edge itself is exactly the same, the height of the ridge-line has an effect on a sword’s cutting power.

    --Guy

  8. #8

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    Guy ,,, thank you for your knowledge and input. is there anything else i can look for that will help determine an authentic magoroku kanemoto?
    i believe these to be original. but thought best to post them here

  9. #9

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    Quote by chuck303 View Post
    Guy ,,, thank you for your knowledge and input. is there anything else i can look for that will help determine an authentic magoroku kanemoto?
    i believe these to be original. but thought best to post them here
    Hi Chuck,

    Buy both!!! $400 each is a steal.

    Okay: I'm not an expert, I'm just a fellah who has some experience with the practical aspect of Japanese swords; and, I can decipher some kanji sometimes. I just took another look and found a write-up here about the 27th Magoroku who was a Seki [Mino/Gifu prefecture] gunto smith in 1944:

    27th Generation Kanemoto, real name Kaneko Tatsuichiro 金子達一郎 later Kaneko Magoroku 孫六 was born in 1924 and was a pupil of Watanabe Kanenaga of Seki Tanrensho.

    KANEMOTO is one of the distinguished families in MINO regions. He succeeded to the name of 27th Kanemoto in 1944, at the age of twenty.
    After WWII, he had won 20 prises in Sinsakutoten (annual New Sword Competition) and in 1997 he got an important intangible cultural heritage from Governor of Gifu prefecture.

    His Mei were very simple... Kaneko, Magoroku and also Kanemoto.

    This blade was made when he was 48 years old and shows Kanemoto's characteristic Sanbonsugi Hamon so cleary.
    Despite the swordsmith made light weight Iai Shinken(s) in his late years, this sword was obviously made as an art sword considering its size and feature.

    A wonderful collectible piece, at the same time it will be a nice Tameshigiri sword with a new Koshirae.
    I am **NOT** saying your sword is a product of this Magoroku -- our advanced collectors would need to see a good-quality image of the full tang, plus a high-quality image of the full blade. Even then, they may not be able to conclusively give an opinion.

    Clip below from Markus Sesko's Index of Japanese Swordsmiths, p. 144; art name Kanemoto 金元.

    P.S. ... Seskno's write-up states he worked as a Navy Certified Swordsmith [Kaigun Jumei Tōshō]


    Still, $400 is a GREAT price.


    --Guy
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture ww2 japanese swords up for review authentication  
    Last edited by ghp95134; 03-21-2019 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Added Kaigun Jumei Tōshō

  10. #10

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    i will pick them up on the weekend and get better pictures, i hope it is authentic. these had came into my buddys gun shop with other military items and ww2 era rifles etc. the widow wanted to rid of the collection so i figured i would take the edged items. wil try for better pictures when i pick them up

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