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Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

Article about: I have no idea how it happened to be on this bayonet (certainly not saying it's right), that was the point of the thread, to try to make sense of it.

  1. #11

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    There is a flood of Bulgarian militaria sold on ebay as German WWI and WWII items. Most are similar but still different :-)
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Yes, lots of Bulgarian "German" items... I don't see anyone actually buying this stuff?

    According to the seller's records, this one came from a very old collection of hundreds of bayonets so the frog is more than likely not related to any recent trends...

    Again, under old Smithy's page of Bulgarian items, the closest match is labeled German 84/98, and it has the same general look although the front leather has been replaced, the 98k bayonet with it is marked 44CVL.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Yes I don't think it is Spanish either too wide, the picture of Spanish frog is in Seitengewher by George Wheeler. All I think non german as already been said. timothy

  5. #14
    ?

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Still looks Bulgarian to me.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Is it possible to get a few pics of a Bulgarian type for comparison and reference for this thread?....or any other types that may have played a role in the same years of production? Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #16

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    It's a mystery frog... ribbit ;-)

  8. #17

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Is it possible to get a few pics of a Bulgarian type for comparison and reference for this thread?....or any other types that may have played a role in the same years of production? Regards Larry
    Larry, No Bulgarian or Austrian frogs for comparison, but here are a few others that may shed some more light on what the Germans used (with the Austrian frogs supposed to be nearly identical to the Czech ones). From left to right: - a standard pattern German frog. And to its right a marked/dated captured black finish Czech Vz 24 frog that has been reworked and had the back piece trimmed into a "wasp waist", a new front pouch and a tie strap added. And some rivets to reinforce the stitching. And to its right a natural finish standard Czech Vz24 frog with a "pebble" grain textured leather, next to a smooth leather finished example. Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #18

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Germans used Italian, Greek, Yugoslavian, British, french, Belgian, Austrian, Czech, Norwegian, Dansk, polish and maybe finish/Swedish frogs. Some without any rework, some with. There exist quite a lot variations. But i never get the Information that German troops used captured Bulgarian frogs or small arms. But this is a different theme.

    Have a look to e bay... there are a lot Bulgarian frogs

  10. #19

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    Yes, a few Bulgarian ones, nothing like this right now.

    The is the closest thing I can find, overall shapewise. Otherwise mine has no rivets, is black instead of brown, has an outline near the borders, and a round hole instead of the usual Bugarian slot but that could have been enlarged, or worn bigger.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Google Image Result for http://www.shopbulgaria.com/files/products/cache/w_1366709277_5000_4000_1366709277.jpg

  11. #20

    Default Re: Any ideas what this 98k frog is?

    In 1934 Bulgaria adopted the newer M30 8x56R Austrian Mannlicher cartridge, and along with some other acquisitions. And with assistance from it's benefactor Germany, between 1938 and 1940 acquired a large number of Austrian Mannlicher weapons from the Austrian Army that were transferred to Bulgaria on German order. With Austrian forces then re-equipping with German type weaponry that used the standard German ammunition. Then some Bulgarian upgrades/conversions seeking uniformity with different sourced weapons etc. And even a 7.92 mm conversion for some Mannlicher weapons that did not work out all that well. With a high rate of mechanical failures in cartridge extraction leaving affected weapons inoperable until repaired. With the bulk of especially the carbines used after the war as "Internal Security" type weapons, or as a part of Bulgaria's strategic reserve in storage. With my point being that the Mannlicher bayonets were made to go on Mannlichers. And if it is a WW II period manufactured Bulgarian frog which is not a given at this point(?). Why does it have to be period "married" to a wartime 98K bayonet - versus just another postwar added on frog?? Fred

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