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Blood grooves on Bayonets

Article about: by Bochmann But you have to remember too the historic element of the dagger(s) in question as their purpose was originally to be used on it's own or in conjuntion with a sword or to finish a

  1. #11

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    I read that myself,, but I wanted to see if there was more to it than just a material issue.....a spike bayonet can leave a wound that will never heal, as I have one of these type bayonets on my SKS. Why is it called blood groove?
    medically i think this is a different issue. to my knowledge, a simple groove will not affect wound healing time. HOWEVER... "spike" shapes such as "diamonds" and "squares" and ESPECIALLY "star patterns" in cross section can cause devastating wounds in term of both blood loss and healing as you know.

    it is extraordinarily difficult to close star-shaped wound patterns. it is very difficult to appose the wound edges to the centre. pretty much impossible i'd guess under most field conditions.

    if you were speaking in terms of wound mechanics, yes, there are shapes that are quite serious.

    however, in cross section, grooves would not be part of this class. a wound from a grooved blade is as easy to appose as a wound caused by a blade without a groove i would imagine. you just push the edges together and you've sealed the wound with pressure. you can not do this, or only with GREAT difficulty, with the aforementioned shapes.

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    I read somewhere years ago that the purpose of the so-called blood grooves was to prevent "vacuum" from forming when inserted into a body and causing suction to "grab hold" of the blade, making it harder and slower to quickly withdraw it from the body. Personally, I rather doubt it, but this is what I was always told, in any case...
    My thoughts also in a round about way,, but makes sense.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #13

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    But you have to remember too the historic element of the dagger(s) in question as their purpose was originally to be used on it's own or in conjuntion with a sword or to finish an animal off if it was brought down by an arrow/spear/shot but not killed.
    I am also equally sure that the SA dagger must have come in handy on occasion, if the situation arose, even if it was not the most sturdy of sidearms.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    That is a old wives story! William.

    Eric

    Found this Info...
    1: You lighten it by using less material, as the act of forging in the fuller actually widens the blade, so you use less material than you would if you forged an unfullered blade. (In stock removal the blade would also be lighter, as you would be removing the material instead of leaving it there).
    2: You stiffen the blade. In an unfullered blade, you only have a "single" center spine. This is especially true in terms of the flattened diamond cross section common to most unfullered double- edged blades. This cross section would be rather "whippy" on a blade that is close to three feet long. Fullering produces two "spines" on the blade, one on each side of the fuller where the edge bevels come in contact with the fuller. This stiffens the blade, and the difference between a non-fullered blade and a fullered one is quite remarkable.
    Fullers on knives do the same thing, although on a smaller blade the effects are not as easily seen or felt. Actually looking at fullers from an engineering point of view they really are a sophisticated forging technique, and it was the fullered swordblade that pointed the way to modern "I" beam construction.
    When combined with proper distal tapers, proper heat treating and tempering, a fullered blade will, without a doubt, be anywhere from 20% to 35% lighter than a non-fullered blade without any sacrifice of strength or blade integrity.
    Fullers were not "blood grooves" or there to "break the suction" or for some other grisly purpose. They served a very important structural function. That's all. I have spent the last 27 years studying this and I can prove it beyond any doubt...
    Source: rec.knives Newsgroup May 1998
    [h=3]e plu·ri·bus u·num[/h]

  6. #15

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    this is one of those topics i'm really enjoying the comments on.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    Oh the old wives tales of the blood groove......

    As a couple have already pointed out, they serve one purpose and one purpose only....to give strength to the blade, think if it like and "I" beam, it's the very same principal. A lighter weight is simply incidental.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    Quote by tempelhof View Post
    medically i think this is a different issue. to my knowledge, a simple groove will not affect wound healing time. HOWEVER... "spike" shapes such as "diamonds" and "squares" and ESPECIALLY "star patterns" in cross section can cause devastating wounds in term of both blood loss and healing as you know.

    it is extraordinarily difficult to close star-shaped wound patterns. it is very difficult to appose the wound edges to the centre. pretty much impossible i'd guess under most field conditions.

    if you were speaking in terms of wound mechanics, yes, there are shapes that are quite serious.

    however, in cross section, grooves would not be part of this class. a wound from a grooved blade is as easy to appose as a wound caused by a blade without a groove i would imagine. you just push the edges together and you've sealed the wound with pressure. you can not do this, or only with GREAT difficulty, with the aforementioned shapes.
    isn't that the reason why a lot of these types of bayonets (with star shaped or trefoil blades) are "banned" because they are so inhumane?

  9. #18

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    In some instances - as on the US Krag bayonet - the fuller is also used
    as a channel where retention springs clamp onto the blade.........
    Regards,


    Steve.

  10. #19

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    Quote by Bochmann View Post
    isn't that the reason why a lot of these types of bayonets (with star shaped or trefoil blades) are "banned" because they are so inhumane?
    Yes like Larry said for his SKS they are a Trocar style trochar from French trois-carré from trois (three) + carré (square) i.e., 'three-edged', triangular and do mass damage.
    We use a Trocar in the funeral business.
    Dont know if they have been baned though.
    Eric
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    [h=3]e plu·ri·bus u·num[/h]

  11. #20

    Default Re: Blood grooves on Bayonets

    SKS Spike bayonet.......very nasty
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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