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Clarification of K98 dress bayonet with Portepee

Article about: I received this bayonet recently and was wanting help confirming it as an authentic K98 Dress bayonet since it and all items are completely unmarked. What group does the portepee?? indicate?

  1. #1

    Default Clarification of K98 dress bayonet with Portepee

    I received this bayonet recently and was wanting help confirming it as an authentic K98 Dress bayonet since it and all items are completely unmarked. What group does the portepee?? indicate? Thank You for your help!Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2
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    Quote by mamitchell19 View Post
    I received this bayonet recently and was wanting help confirming it as an authentic K98 Dress bayonet since it and all items are completely unmarked. What group does the portepee?? indicate? Thank You for your help!Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	739499Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	739498Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks like a nice all original ks98 bayo and scabbard with proper frog Really don't have the experience with portepee to comment on whether it is correct for this bayo or which unit it represents, but it looks to have the proper age to it.

    Jim

    p.s
    Welcome to the forum

  4. #3

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    Officers dress knot could be worn with the KS98 short model as shown nice set. All is proper for KS98 as mentioned. timothy

  5. #4

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    Hello,

    this is a Portepee for the Army. Worn by officers and "senior NCO" (Unteroffiziere mit Portepee, ab Feldwebel).
    It is the official little Modell for saber and bayonet.

    ...and it is a scare version of the Portepee with a web band.

    Regards

  6. #5

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    A good find, that is a scarce variation of the officer's knot . I don't have it in front of me, with my best immediate recollection of past discussions regarding the high points of officer's (including the senior grade NCO's who were authorized to wear the officer's knot and side arm) is that it covered three distinct time periods. During the later Imperial era, once the wearing of swords was discontinued, officers were permitted to carry 'dress style' bayonets with knots and oftetimes a cypher on the grip like some swords. That was more or less continued into the Weimar era with some other changes that are somewhat involved for a brief answer. And later a 1936 TR era publication that says that officer's (and senior grade NCO's) were to wear the sword or officer's model dagger. Whereas the lower grade NCO's and enlisted men were to wear either the EM saber, or dress bayonet off duty. That is more or less replicated in period Luftwaffe publications with a later minor modification for those having flight status. Best Regards, Fred

  7. #6

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    Hello,

    the orders ot the german Reichswehr for the bayonet were never removed.

    Also in the D.V.122 (from 1934 until end of war) the officers also get a bayonet frog.

    But there is a difference between walking out sidearms and service bayonets.

    Regards

  8. #7

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    Quote by Sleepwalker View Post
    Hello,

    the orders ot the german Reichswehr for the bayonet were never removed.

    Also in the D.V.122 (from 1934 until end of war) the officers also get a bayonet frog.

    But there is a difference between walking out sidearms and service bayonets.

    Regards
    Hello, and Thank You. But it would also be very helpful I think to see some copies of the actual orders themselves. As the results of prior research I found elsewhere by others was helpful to me in sorting out what took place during the Weimar era. Noting that were was a distinction in the Weimar era regulations between those who were in the field and those who were not. With one other factor that I think needs some clarification being the fact that the acceptance marked government issue (Army Officer) sabers of the TR period for senior NCO's with portepee rank actually had its first issue/origin before the TR period started (ie: it was the same saber in the later Weimar era). With senior grade NCO's still enlisted men who were not required to provide their own sidearms. However, unlike the other branches of the Wehrmacht that not only had military issue swords for senior grade NCO's, the others also had daggers, with one branch even having two different types. But I've never seen a military issue (acceptance marked) German Army Officer's dagger for senior grade NCO's with the portepee, much less a Waffenampted nickel plated dress bayonet. With my point being that there were period regulations where an individual who needed something to fulfill his duties could secure a loan from military stores. But there seems to be no evidence anywhere of government acquired/property dress bayonets (or German Army Officer's daggers). And while I can't say that it's all of them, at best with those photos that came to mind of the supposed 'in use' period pictures of dress bayonets they seem to be training and/or propaganda photos instead of 'in use' combat/field photos. Best Regards, Fred

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