Dress Bayonet, help please

**rebeldevil89** · 01-06-2019, 02:36 PM

Hi guys,
A friend of mine bought this for $80 at a gun show this weekend, and was wondering what exactly it is, and if he got a decent deal? I know next to nothing about bayonets and the prices they go for.

I believe it's an Army dress bayonet, but unsure of the maker or era (prewar, early war, etc). Looks like the blade has been ground a little, so I'm not sure if what he paid was a good deal or not.

Thank you for any help!

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-06-2019 02:36 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**jamie7d7** · 01-06-2019, 02:45 PM

Hi

Yeah, you are correct, it's a Heer parade bayonet for an NCO (it's a shorter version than the enlisted men had).

The frog is another sign that this was a parade item as you can see the polish on the leather is cracking in places, shows you that the two belong together.

The maker of the bayonet is WKC (Weyersberg Kirschbaum & Cie AG, Solingen). Someone may be able to tell you the rough year in which it was made as some manufacturers changed their maker mark now and again.

$80 is a good price

Cheers

Jamie

**Anderson** · 01-06-2019, 03:21 PM

This is an interesting KS98 as it has the look of an early type, perhaps Imperial or Weimar but the trademark which suggests WKC is of a style I am not aware of. It's quite different to the knight's head mark seen throughout the 1930's. In fact it's a simplified version of a style that suggests later not earlier.
Could it be a fake? or is it a very early evolution of the trademark from the time the company dropped the king's head? The form that was adopted post WW1 was more detailed such as in the photo I've posted.
The scabbard does seem to be WKC as the frog lug has the scarab beetle look. So I would lean to very early post WW1 KS98, say 1920's, with an early and seldom seen version of the WKC knight trademark. Quite a rare example.

**Frogprince** · 01-06-2019, 06:30 PM

by Anderson

This is an interesting KS98 as it has the look of an early type, perhaps Imperial or Weimar but the trademark which suggests WKC is of a style I am not aware of. It's quite different to the knight's head mark seen throughout the 1930's. In fact it's a simplified version of a style that suggests later not earlier.
Could it be a fake? or is it a very early evolution of the trademark from the time the company dropped the king's head? The form that was adopted post WW1 was more detailed such as in the photo I've posted.
The scabbard does seem to be WKC as the frog lug has the scarab beetle look. So I would lean to very early post WW1 KS98, say 1920's, with an early and seldom seen version of the WKC knight trademark. Quite a rare example.

A good eye for detail,

the hilt seems to be iron/steel which I think would also argue for earlier. TR era Regulations specifying that the private purchase types were to be worn off duty with the appropriate uniform - and catalogs/other documentation indicating no known (documented) preference for long or short bayonets between the junior grade NCO's/enlisted men to include the other service branches. Best Regards, Fred

**AndyB** · 01-07-2019, 08:22 AM

Same opinion a early WKC probably, steel handle, older type grips, one minus sharpened blade. b.r.Andy

**Anderson** · 01-07-2019, 10:26 AM

I was interested in seeking out another early post WW1 WKC trademark as seen on this bayonet. I found one on a Baden Polizei seitengewehr (with the hook pommel).

This trademark is slightly different to the OP's example and I think the Baden bayonet example is a little later as the design is a bit more refined.

**Grofaz45** · 01-07-2019, 04:05 PM

Hi,
What about this WKC mark it's on a pioneer bayonet, is it a known variant as it's different again to the two shown and if it's a good mm I might buy this bayonet. Apologies if I'm butting in on your thread rebeldevil89 ?
Regards, Andy.

**Anderson** · 01-08-2019, 03:27 AM

Yes, it is. The "WKC" began to appear on blades from 1930 and I would date this trademark to around 1930+. Shortly after the Knight's helmet design was revised again. Have a look at my thread "WKC trademark evolution" posted yesterday. That might be a good pioneer to pick up. They never sold many of those, but check that crossbar which seems out of line.

**Grofaz45** · 01-09-2019, 02:15 AM

Hi, Ok thanks Anderson I haven't checked your thread yet but will later, I was also a little concerned about the crossbar alignment combined with a WKC mark I had not seen before so have attached more pics as it seems it's the fit of the grip plate that is off not the bar which gets me thinking has the grip plate been messed with or is it a sloppy bit of assembly and I am also concerned this is maybe? a standard side arm that has had the quilon ground off to appear as a pioneer side arm? there is a pic showing the front of the crossbar but it's not a detailed photo. What do you think?
Regards, Andy.

by Anderson

Yes, it is. The "WKC" began to appear on blades from 1930 and I would date this trademark to around 1930+. Shortly after the Knight's helmet design was revised again. Have a look at my thread "WKC trademark evolution" posted yesterday. That might be a good pioneer to pick up. They never sold many of those, but check that crossbar which seems out of line.

**Anderson** · 01-09-2019, 03:06 AM

Andy, I'd ask for more close up photos. I don't like the look of that back grip plate, the diamonds lack the sharp edges usually seen and on the front plate. It's a poor moulding. It might be a replacement. If it's a replacement it raises the possibility the whole bayonet has been converted from a KS98 with extended crossguard.
Also need a picture of the full blade. From what I see it seems to be a Carbine blade, that may be possible for a pioneer, but is it 25cm length?