Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Help with Bayonet

Article about: Hello all,I usually lurk in the Japanese section but I also have a fondness for German items as well, and have collected mainly edged weapons over the years.I was reorganizing some of my thi

  1. #11

    Default

    I keep wondering if this is a dress bayonet why is there no evidence of plating?? Were there dress bayonets in production that were unplated?? Regards,Geoff

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default

    In general agreement with Andy, the c. 1930's (German made) Spanish contract Seitengewehr 84/98 service bayonets have a polished steel finish (with blued scabbards) that I don't believe is stainless steel that if well preserved still has a good appearance. And while there can be a debate about what to call this or that I don't think that the term 'Dress Bayonet' necessarily applies here any more than it might to some of the fairly decorative types of German Police bayonets as private purchases. With my reasoning being that some of the KS98 type of bayonets such as those for an institution like the Reichsfinanzverwaltung (RFV) are not constructed like a standard dress (Extra-Seitengewehr) bayonet in two pieces, instead having a single forged blade/handle assembly. Also thinking that it could be a little later than the Weimar period having seen some German Army marked (ex-Wehrmacht) Seitengewehr 84/98 service bayonets that were subsequently given to the RFV in the 1930's, agreeing that the frog looks like it's probably a later (unmarked) Luftwaffe example. Best Regards, Fred

  4. #13

    Default

    Hello,

    on one pic the hilt shows little trades of plating.

    The blade seems to be plated.

    The press stud is replaced by one of a S84/98... the scratches on hilt and grips indicates a grinding.

    Maybe someone has "create" a "look a like a RFV Bayonet".


    Regards

  5. #14

    Default

    Quote by Sleepwalker View Post
    Hello,

    on one pic the hilt shows little trades of plating.

    The blade seems to be plated.

    The press stud is replaced by one of a S84/98... the scratches on hilt and grips indicates a grinding.

    Maybe someone has "create" a "look a like a RFV Bayonet".


    Regards
    Maybe so, but there are some other indicators that I think should also be taken into account. Not in hand an examination in sunlight is usually fairly useful at this point in determining plating versus polished steel, with both types seen on some of the RFV marked - KS98 bayonets (which were just used as an example like those from the Spanish contract to illustrate a point). That said, while there is what looks like some relatively minor areas of old rust on the hilt and some signs of it being removed and dark spots on the blade, there is also no discernible sign of any plating being lifted and peeling away. With the same to be said for the press button/stud which looks like it might be secured by a swaging process, and rivets that don’t look new combined with the commensurate blued scabbard and TR era style number font etc. - so perhaps it’s just what it appears to be using the photos that we have(?). Best Regards, Fred

  6. #15

    Default

    Hello,

    i taken three pictures to show my observations.

    There are litle Parts of nickel plating still on the bayonet (blue zones). It looks like the bayonet became over-worked. In the red marked Details are typical evidence vor this.

    On the hilt you can see the trades of a soft grinding, possibly a finish by a steel brush. On the hilt you can see rough and depth scratches going from the plastic grips to the steel or reverse. It is not possible that this developed in the production of the bayonet.

    So i´m to be convinced, that the bayonet is overworked and cleand at a later time and the press stud has been replaced. In the original this was a normal early dress bayonet.
    The origin of the number on the balde is irreproducible.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	6.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	208.1 KB 
ID:	968161   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2 (1).jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	200.1 KB 
ID:	968162  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	4 (1).jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	202.0 KB 
ID:	968163  

  7. #16

    Default

    The blued scabbard is not extraordinary for a early made dress bayonet. Not few makers blued scabbards in later times.

    In litle contracts to authorities, manly the Banhschutz (Railway Protection Police), this type of scabbard were also used in the early 1930 ´th years.
    But the frogs studes have only three groves.

    For a use in Export i have no Information. The Export-bayontes a know - to South-America, Portugal and Spain - all used other Scabbards.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040564.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	156.0 KB 
ID:	968164   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040565.JPG 
Views:	10 
Size:	160.1 KB 
ID:	968165  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040566.JPG 
Views:	5 
Size:	159.1 KB 
ID:	968166   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040576.JPG 
Views:	5 
Size:	154.8 KB 
ID:	968167  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040569.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	155.3 KB 
ID:	968168  

  8. #17

    Default

    The scabbards of the RFV bayonets are a little bit differnet... amongst others they habe only two groves in the frog stud
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020559.JPG 
Views:	11 
Size:	159.5 KB 
ID:	968169   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020563.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	160.2 KB 
ID:	968170  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020564.JPG 
Views:	5 
Size:	177.9 KB 
ID:	968171   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020565.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	172.2 KB 
ID:	968172  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020569.JPG 
Views:	8 
Size:	158.6 KB 
ID:	968173  

  9. #18

    Default

    The Postschutz used normal dress bayonets with black laquerd scabbards... the only differnt is the DRP stamp and the number.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1130852.JPG 
Views:	9 
Size:	141.4 KB 
ID:	968180  

  10. #19

    Default

    Some Railway bayonets have what I am going to call a 'normal' 84/98 scabbard without a lip, but that's not really on topic so that's all I have to say before getting back to the thread starter. So from my perspective while it's not in sunlight and might be a little over-magnified, the interior cleaning rod channel and exterior seem to have the same aged spotted/corrosion tarnished appearance inside and out. So I ask myself why is that? Using as a contrast, an export/Spanish contract example having some small spots of corrosion/age on the pommel and cross guard being finished with a brush/satin type of polishing. As is the blade (which as expected is/was better protected) having a smooth satin like appearance - not smooth bright and shinny with a hint of a color tint like nickel plating. When looked at as a group some variables being seen with the different KS and/or Dress types (in other words they don't seem to be all completely uniform unlike the ex-Wehrmacht Seitengewehr 84/98 service type of RFV bayonets which includes the style of markings). Best Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	KS 98 hilt closeup.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	77.8 KB 
ID:	968194   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	export model Spanish contract.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	32.4 KB 
ID:	968195  


  11. #20

    Default

    Thank you both very much for your generous information! Fred a comment you made struck a chord with me when you used the term Brushed/Satin finish.That is indeed what I was trying to convey in my description and my question regarding whether or not there were "Rostfrei" Bayonets? Here is a similar finish on a Luftwaffe Gravity knife that prompted the question.Of course the blade cross-graining runs horizontally on the Gravity knife blade and if I am correct the graining/brush marks run vertically on the bayonet blade but I think you can understand what I am describing.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LW6.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	258.6 KB 
ID:	968270   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LW11.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	217.1 KB 
ID:	968271  


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 11-23-2014, 02:19 PM
  2. Need Help! Identify Bayonet - Possibly Italian M1891/TS Transverse Bayonet

    In Bayonets and trench knives of the world
    11-05-2013, 11:20 PM
  3. 11-04-2013, 07:28 AM
  4. 04-03-2013, 04:25 AM
  5. Krag bayonet and French Gras bayonet

    In Bayonets and trench knives of the world
    08-19-2010, 08:48 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •