K98 - Bayonet by E.u.F. Horster - 1940

[Rossi]

Here is my last K98 bayonet to post. Been there and untouched with matching numbers. 1940 Model by Bayonet by E.u.F. Horster. Frog is unit marked but I cannot make it out.

Rossi

[Anderson]

A good honest combat used K98 bayonet and typical of the thousands found with veteran's families. A couple of observations; in 1940 when it left the Horster factory it would have had black bakelite grips. Also the blued finish would appear to be a "re-work" possibly late war, if not post war. The bluing hasn't adhered well in places and on the crossbar appears to have flaked off in areas. That might explain the wood grips, which came back into favour in 1942. So I would lean toward the bayonet getting a refurbish some time after 1942. No extra marks, or serial numbers or alloy scabbard rivets, so it may have been a TR makeover.

[AndyB]

What is nice is a early unit marked frog, unfortunally not visible the stamp, the grips were replaced as 1940 should have dark plastic as material. S84/98 is correct designation of bayonet, as K98 is designation of Carbine even not fully correct K98k.

[Anderson]

" S84/98 is correct designation of bayonet, as K98 is designation of Carbine even not fully correct K98k." AndyB.

You are being a little pedantic here. We are all aware it's a "S84/98", certainly I am, but for brevity all collectors use "K98" to describe the bayonet type. And that's unlikely to change. Just like referring to bakelite as "dark plastic" I guess.

[Toecutter]

Nice bayonet!Matching ones are harder to find.Here is a 40 WKC with the grips Anderson is talking about,they are waffenamp and numbered to the bayonet along with the back plate. As you can see this one was never reworked.

[Frogprince]

This topic has touched on multiple items that may not all be in the order first posted. I have myself used "98K" it seems forever because that was is what is used in face to face discussions where I live, and have lived. But since then, while it took some adjusting, I decided that using one period publication as a basis S.84/98 would be what I would use online (instead of S84/98 not that it's improper/wrong). Something that I thought was a fair tradeoff for not having to use Seitengewehr instead of bayonet (Bajonett having its own meaning), and Karabiner 98 Kurz was much too long . And the bayonet in question has been reworked - OEM wood grips for some makers reintroduced later in 1942 most likely due to a shortage of plastics with the Germans hard at work developing an acceptable substitute. As for the question of the bayonet being reblued I'm undecided. I've seen some period rebluing that is equal to OEM bluing that is very hard to tell the difference in hand even under magnification in direct sunlight (the areas that I normally tend to focus on are protected, like blades and where the frog protects the scabbard). The image posted here an old one I used on another forum to try and show the differences between OEM rust-blue, and the hot dip blue/black oxide types (rust bluing the center example). Best Regards, Fred

[TWS]

" S84/98 is correct designation of bayonet, as K98 is designation of Carbine even not fully correct K98k." AndyB.

You are being a little pedantic here. We are all aware it's a "S84/98", certainly I am, but for brevity all collectors use "K98" to describe the bayonet type. And that's unlikely to change. Just like referring to bakelite as "dark plastic" I guess.

Agree. Nothing personally against Andy because he is technically correct, but for the entire multiple decades I've been in the hobby, the S84/98 has been referred to by collectors as a "K98 bayonet". That is the heavily prevalent colloquialism and if I referred to it as a S84/98 I would get some puzzled looks in many collecting circles. Furthermore if I tried to correct them they would just think I'm being pompous.

I guess it's like when someone asks for a Kleenex and you could say, "well this facial tissue is not actually made by Kleenex but you may have one". No, you don't say that. You just accept that nearly everyone calls it a Kleenex regardless.

[TWS]

And back on topic: Nice bayonet Rossi!

I might have to drag mine out and join in the party.

[Toecutter]

I have always called them k98 bayonets,maybe not correct term but everyone knows what you mean.A true matching early bayonet will have 5 matching parts,kind of like the many numbered parts on early k98 rifles.The scabbard,blade,both grips and backing plate were numbered as with my WKC40 example(see added pics to post).Most collectors never remove the grips so they really dont know whats under them,many broken damaged grips were replaced throughout the war on these.If you decide to remove the grips on yours, use the right size screw driver!Someone buggered one screw up a little on mine,before I got it.

[JPhilip]

Frog is unit marked but I cannot make it out.

Hello Gentlemen,
This is a nice bayonet, with an interesting early frog that has been tinted in black after the soldier was issued with it...

For the unit markings, why not try : 8./J.R.74 II
Not quite sure for the Kompanie, could be also be 3 or even something else, but the nature of the regiment and its number are quite clear, J.R. 74 means Infanterieregiment 74 and the II (roman 2) is the grade of the frog.
Honestly, these guys who stamped the markings never thought, even a second, that these markings would be of interest for some crazy collectors more than 80 years later, otherwise i'm sure they wouldn't have stamped them right on the middle stitching of the frog (b@st@rds!!!)

Infanterieregiment 74 - Lexikon der Wehrmacht

And concerning the names, i have never used the term K98 bayonet as i also never used the term K98 alone, but K98k, often replaced by Karabiner, even when talking with friends. Same for the Seitengewehr, for me it's the S84/98 of third type or S84/98 or simply "la 84/98" when talking with friends (la means the). There are so many variants that calling things by their name make talks or explaination easier...
Thanks