K98 Bayonet with “skeletonized” frog

**MAP** · 02-01-2019, 04:37 AM

by Rossi

Love G Strings and Thongs

And here I always thought you preferred to go Commando...

Learning every day on this forum!

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-01-2019 04:37 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Rossi** · 02-01-2019, 05:10 AM

by MAP

And here I always thought you preferred to go Commando...

Learning every day on this forum!

I do fish in my speedos in the spring before Ice out and the temps hit 35-45 degrees. Photo of me years ago with a big pike

**MAP** · 02-01-2019, 05:14 AM

by Rossi

I do fish in my speedos in the spring before Ice out and the temps hit 35-45 degrees. Photo of me years ago with a big pike

Glad I wasn't drinking when I saw this! Otherwise I would be cleaning my monitor. What a Man!

**Sleepwalker** · 02-07-2019, 07:20 PM

Hello,

the official term is "Seitengewehrtasche für das Zusammenklappbare Schanzwerkzeug".

The Germans gave these bags no Model-year name... only the bayonet model for which they were intended = "Seitengewehrtasche 84/98" or "Seitengewehrtasche 98/05".

This frog was created in 1942 because of a better size of carring the bayonet along with the Entreching Tool. So this frog was not general equipment but coupled with the use of the folding spade.

"Skelleton frog" is only a collector name of a scare late frog made out of leather parts i show in the pictures.

**Rossi** · 02-07-2019, 08:13 PM

by Sleepwalker

Hello,

the official term is "Seitengewehrtasche für das Zusammenklappbare Schanzwerkzeug".

The Germans gave these bags no Model-year name... only the bayonet model for which they were intended = "Seitengewehrtasche 84/98" or "Seitengewehrtasche 98/05".

This frog was created in 1942 because of a better size of carring the bayonet along with the Entreching Tool. So this frog was not general equipment but coupled with the use of the folding spade.

"Skelleton frog" is only a collector name of a scare late frog made out of leather parts i show in the pictures.

Thank you for the data! Appreciated

**Frogprince** · 02-07-2019, 10:06 PM

My own experience with the skeletonized frogs was at the end of a very long search for one from a GI source. Never successful, finally at a large show a friend of mine acquired a few that we closely examined and not that long afterwards I saw a small batch combined with as I recall ex-Yugoslavian field gear and some bayonets in bulk, reported as coming from there. Still more appearing in the various batches of imports from there that have long since dried up. In hand they did not work well with the shovel carriers because the dimensions were very noticeably all off - and then there was the fact that they had the Yugoslavian style “V” stitching between the two rivets at the top of the backstrqp. Possibly partisan manufacture, or maybe put together during the postwar period of significant unrest in that region I don’t know, but I never felt comfortable enough to put one in my own collection. Best Regards, Fred

**Anderson** · 02-08-2019, 02:55 AM

" "Skelleton frog" is only a collector name of a scare late frog made out of leather parts.." Sleepwalker

Exactly.

**Sleepwalker** · 02-08-2019, 04:32 PM

by Frogprince

My own experience with the skeletonized frogs was at the end of a very long search for one from a GI source. Never successful, finally at a large show a friend of mine acquired a few that we closely examined and not that long afterwards I saw a small batch combined with as I recall ex-Yugoslavian field gear and some bayonets in bulk, reported as coming from there. Still more appearing in the various batches of imports from there that have long since dried up. In hand they did not work well with the shovel carriers because the dimensions were very noticeably all off - and then there was the fact that they had the Yugoslavian style “V” stitching between the two rivets at the top of the backstrqp. Possibly partisan manufacture, or maybe put together during the postwar period of significant unrest in that region I don’t know, but I never felt comfortable enough to put one in my own collection. Best Regards, Fred

Hello,

the skeleton frogs were made out of norwegian leather parts for german training units. Some leather parts bear the norwegian markings.

The V-stitching by jugo frogs are not the same and Vet items often not a reliable source.

Here is a picture of a soldier of a NCO-School with a "skeleton-frog" out of my "Frog-Pic-Collection".
I think it's obvious.

Regards

**Frogprince** · 02-08-2019, 07:41 PM

by Sleepwalker

Hello,

the skeleton frogs were made out of norwegian leather parts for german training units. Some leather parts bear the norwegian markings.

The V-stitching by jugo frogs are not the same and Vet items often not a reliable source.

Here is a picture of a soldier of a NCO-School with a "skeleton-frog" out of my "Frog-Pic-Collection".
I think it's obvious.

Regards

Hello Sleepwalker,

I understand your point and sometimes “Vet” sources are not reliable. No argument there. But likewise sometimes German sources are not that reliable either. One case in point being a book on belt frogs from the late Anthony Carter where regarding the so-called “Breadbag” frogs he states: “However informed opinion in Germany today leans towards the view that they are Turkish”. Another example reported from DWJ that the supposed legitimate Luftwaffe tropical frogs are not like those from U.S. veterans - but instead are vat dyed. The body of the frog, the thread stitching it together, everything. Some supposed Germany Army code using 1945 frogs (PW fake markings - IMO) etc. that are very highly questionable when compared to legitimate 1945 period leather items.

As for the picture in question it appears to be from a photography studio. It’s a piece of evidence, but at least IMO not conclusive. That’s because time and again it has been seen that some studio portraits have used studio props, as have some propaganda photos. I’m not saying that this happened here because I don’t know it for a fact, and we cannot see if there is a “V” line of stitching in the photo (the "V" illustrated by the red arrows).

What can be seen in the images that are posted is besides the “V” line, there is also a repair with what looks like a set of aluminum rivets in another location in addition to the no longer present original rivets (only the holes remaining). The ex-Yugoslavian examples that I saw years ago showing many signs of repair upon repair, until the frogs were falling apart - something that did not happen overnight. As was the condition of much of the other field gear in poor condition that did not all appear to be Germanic. So if guys want to collect them that’s fine with me. And it's not to say that I avoid what I consider to be period reworks, or late wartime frogs such as the “Breadbag” type.

Best Regards, Fred

**Sleepwalker** · 02-08-2019, 08:21 PM

Hello,

you can see the frog in the pictures. Since I think any further speculation about a different origin superfluous. This source is quite clear.

In one piece, the rivets were offset so that it fits better over the belt. The loops in these pieces are sometimes quite tight. The material of the rivets plays less of a role.
Also, I think that this seam plays no real role at all and is just manufacturer-driven. A conclusion on a Yugoslav production I do not see there. Also with regard to the picture I attached.

There are different types of "breadbag"-frogs. Of which are turkish others and are mainly found on certain types of commercial S84/98.

In the case of the Yugoslav frogs, the loop was simply laid and provided with a triangular seam. Rivets were not there.

Regards