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Lithuanian M 24 L Bayonet

Article about: Hallo, here is a lithuanian bayonet for the FN M 24 L rifle. It was delviered to Lithuania between 1935 and 1939. This bayonet is also made from the belgian maker FN and it is a copy of long

  1. #1

    Default Lithuanian M 24 L Bayonet

    Hallo,

    here is a lithuanian bayonet for the FN M 24 L rifle. It was delviered to Lithuania between 1935 and 1939.

    This bayonet is also made from the belgian maker FN and it is a copy of long the CSR Vz.23 bayonet, wich was delivered to Lithuania in 1926/27.

    Two things are differnet to the CSR Vz.23. First the blad shows the edge down and the scrabbard has a typical FN frog stud.

    After the occupation by the Sowjets in 1940 this weapons are in russian service.

    In 1941 the german forces captuered the stocks of this material and used this. The german Name of this bayonet was Seitengewehr 129 (r)

    Sometimes the lithuanian M24L and the Vz.23 has the scabbards mixed...
    Also in the german field manual of captured small arms is a Vz.23 shown in a M24L scabbard.

    The M24L shows typical belgian proof stamps. J in Oval at the bayonet and A in a box on the scabbard.


    Regards
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    Last edited by Sleepwalker; 10-05-2014 at 01:06 PM.

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  3. #2
    ?

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    Rare bayonet that I don't know anything about. In the absence of markings, how can you tell this one from any other Belgian long export? I did notice that this one does not have the clean out hole in the grip. I'm just trying to learn something new, because I would not have known this was Lithuanian just by looking at it.

    Regards,
    Jim

  4. #3

    Default

    Lithuanian because this is a vz.23 copy from FN. The M24L was only made for Lithuania.

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote by Jim P View Post
    Rare bayonet that I don't know anything about. In the absence of markings, how can you tell this one from any other Belgian long export? I did notice that this one does not have the clean out hole in the grip. I'm just trying to learn something new, because I would not have known this was Lithuanian just by looking at it.

    Regards,
    Jim
    Jim, Certainly IMO one of the rarely seen much harder to find service bayonets. When discussing Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka (CZ) bayonets, and those of its competitor Fabrique Nationale (FN) it can get a little complicated because I believe that the very limited number circa 1926 Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka (CZ) “L” pattern rifles not only used a non 7.92 mm cartridge, but also a M95 Mannlicher style bayonet with an extended muzzle ring. With the primary CZ contract circa 1935 for the Vz.24 rifles, and CZ sometimes delivering the longer bladed (like the Vz.23 types) as specified by the customer. Instead of the shorter Vz.24 types which both CZ and FN suppled to conform to orders from other customers.

    As for a checklist on how to tell them apart: One of the most obvious features are the scabbards, FN using a black painted scabbard with the style frog stud as pictured instead of the blued broad/flat frog stud CZ type. Usually with a stamped "Pillars of Gediminidas” Lithuanian symbol on the ball/finial, that also has a drain hole unlike the CZ scabbards.

    Markings sometimes in other locations, as well as a serial number in the correct ranges on the pommel. With the bayonet itself having a slightly different more angular type of machining and ricasso area that might not be that obvious unless compared side by side with a Czech manufactured bayonet. A darker type of gray phosphate finish on the blade and muzzle ring than the CZ bayonets, which often have a CZ “Circle/Z” stamp on the side of the MR. With both using walnut bayonet grips that have the clean out slot/hole next to the muzzle ring. And as Sleepwalker says, the long Vz.23 style FN bayonet with the markings as noted seeming to only have been sent to Lithuania, whereas the shorter FN Model 1924 export bayonets are from other contracts/countries.

    PS: CZ in the 1930’s did export a long bladed modified from the Vz.23 type of bayonet. As well as some presumably export versions of the long Vz.23 type of bayonets lacking the markings seen on the long Vz.23 (1923 dated) Czech Army types. Best Regards, Fred
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  6. #5

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    Jim, I'm sorry for the confusion, but regrettably I'm going to have to report that I have major egg on my face because I did not look at the pictures first posted closely enough. My bad. The bayonet first posted here IMO is possibly one of the long FN other export types with a down turned blade edge. With the easily verifiable Lithuanian M 24L bayonets having an upturned blade edge like the M 95, Czech 98/22, Vz.23, Vz.24 and Vz.33 bayonets. With even more egg added to my face because on another WRF thread I posted not just the FN Lithuanian M24L, but also some variants of the Czech Vz.24's. Oh well..................... Best Regards, Fred
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    Last edited by Frogprince; 10-07-2014 at 07:34 AM. Reason: edit comment

  7. #6

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    我不知道你說的是那麼多的數字和日期我失去的情節。這是一個德國製造的刺刀或沒有?
    I have no clue what you are talking about so many numbers and dates I lost the plot. Is this a German made bayonet or not?

    ok Egg on my face now..so I provided a translation to the Chinese text above....Fred could you translate what you have posted in your last 2 posts? can you simplify your answer for the kids here..including me ? Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #7

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    Quote by Larry C View Post
    我不知道你說的是那麼多的數字和日期我失去的情節。這是一個德國製造的刺刀或沒有?
    I have no clue what you are talking about so many numbers and dates I lost the plot. Is this a German made bayonet or not?

    ok Egg on my face now..so I provided a translation to the Chinese text above....Fred could you translate what you have posted in your last 2 posts? can you simplify your answer for the kids here..including me ? Regards Larry
    Larry, I'm sorry for all of the dates and numbers, but they are useful I think in sorting out what happened just like we use the SA-SS-NSKK nomenclatures to sort out the political daggers that are made to a basic pattern. With the bayonet(s) in question all preexisting, and never having been made by either the Germans or under German occupation. With the short version of their history being that the Czechs (CZ) sent Lithuania thousands of their model Vz.24 rifles that were paired up with the longer Vz.23 bayonets. With a different contract given to FN in Belgium for their version of the rifle, that also included the FN version of the (almost exactly the same) Czech Vz.23 bayonets that was known as the M 24L. With all of the Lithuanian rifles and bayonets being captured at some point by the Russians and/or Germans as Sleepwalker stated - and the Germans listing them in their inventory of foreign/captured weapons. With the thread starter from what I've seen so far IMO not a Lithuanian M 24L.

    Have I cleared it up - or made it even more confusing?? Best Regards, Fred

  9. #8

    Default

    uhmm..I think so
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

    Default

    All Im seeing is Czech. Lithuania, Russian,.. a sequence of launch codes,,foreign captured and I like the word "Nomenclatures" ....sounds cool like clay pigeons

    So does this bayonet belong on this forum? Is there anything German about it? and yes Im still lost.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    uhmm..I think so
    Ooppsie!! Maybe it's a blond thing, but I goofed a little with my blanket statement of under the German occupation, because the bottom two Czech Vz.24's of the group of three I posted are period Waffenamted examples that were made under the occupation. Best Regards, Fred

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