Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

Article about: by Sleepwalker rust prevention was not a goal, it was more a blank metal prevention of camouflage reasons. The hilt isnīt of interest. This color were used not becouse of a rust prevention.

  1. #11

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    Quote by Sleepwalker View Post
    rust prevention was not a goal, it was more a blank metal prevention of camouflage reasons. The hilt isnīt of interest. This color were used not becouse of a rust prevention. The reason was... no other color was available. By orders 1943-1945 the rebluing (Auffrischung der Deckungsmittel) of small arms were reduced or totally canceled. you also can find white, black or sand (Einheitsfarbe 42) colour.

    In the end of the war, there can be found some equipment painted red (until to tanks) ... with no other cover. So it is not impossible, that scabbards were painted in red.

    You can also find canteens with red lacquer out of the endwar period



    ...
    I’m afraid that I am going to have to respectfully disagree with much of what was said. If rust prevention was not a goal, why would the German rifle makers have painted the insides of the buttplates with a red lead paint where it did not show?? Because it’s certainly not a camouflage paint, or end of war scenario due to the scarcity of materials. But it would (and still does) minimize contact with the wood rifle stocks which were going to get wet at some point in combat and cause rusting. With the exterior of the (Karabiner 98k) buttplate here having age/wear and evidence of rusting, but the interior still relatively untouched. And the image here showing what the red lead paint they used actually looks like (which is not the same as that on the bayonet).

    With canteens interesting - but how many were made using ferrous (rust prone) steels? And while the phosphate type finishes for small arms were used more and more towards the end of the war. When the Mauser factory was planning to move away from the Allies near the end to keep it in operation, they made provisions for relocating both the bluing and phosphating equipment (the move itself never took place). And while paint can have its place externally (preferably over phosphate). In the internal parts of guns it can make a mess and cause them to quit working.

    With the red lead painted tanks really a separate issue. Because the red paint is what you also find on earlier vehicles underneath the camouflage as a primmer/preventative. Being used to keep the tanks rust free (as much as possible) while in process. And it has been suggested by some of those who study them that near the end it was more important to get the vehicles into the hands of the soldiers to replace losses quickly without waiting for camouflage. And in many cases the tankers themselves modified and created their own camouflage schemes that were different than the factory ones, often having their own supplies to customize their vehicles. Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	98K buttplate.jpg 
Views:	68 
Size:	109.7 KB 
ID:	531163  
    Last edited by Larry C; 06-28-2013 at 12:12 AM.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    red oxide primer as any primer is matt and absorbs grease as well can be easily marked with a human nail - so it would not last that long untouched.
    primer is not for rustproofing but for sealing and preparing surface to be painted. unexposed parts will remain in primer because only fronts were painted.
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  4. #13

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    Quote by meyle77 View Post
    red oxide primer as any primer is matt and absorbs grease as well can be easily marked with a human nail - so it would not last that long untouched.
    primer is not for rustproofing but for sealing and preparing surface to be painted. unexposed parts will remain in primer because only fronts were painted.
    Red lead paint is specifically mentioned in period literature as a protective paint for iron and steel. And clearly that is what is inside of the Kar. 98k buttplate. And while I’m not professionally qualified to discuss the technical/engineering merits of paint versus primmer or areas where there may be some crossover effect in their use. Wikipedia has the following entry: “Lead tetraoxide is most often used as a pigment for primer paints for iron objects. Due to its toxicity, its use is being limited. In the past, it was used in combination with linseed oil as a thick, long-lasting anti-corrosive paint.”

    Which brings me to this picture of the front end of a German Assault vehicle. Which looks to me like a well aged red lead type of paint that was used underneath the camouflage paint - which is now mostly missing. Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	frontal paint on German armor.jpg 
Views:	67 
Size:	79.0 KB 
ID:	531209  

  5. #14

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    Yes, it is protective but it needs to be painted over with a proper paint - the use of captured paints, various colour primers and leftovers from early years was common from mid 1944 to the end of the war.
    Germans even stopped painting interiors of afvs with beige/tan paint and left them in primer from mid 1944 onwards.
    The use of primer as paint was dictated by the war situation and not as a proper measure.
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  6. #15

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    a logical reason for a anti rust color or a rust stop reason do not exist... this were done in field, with color who was available. the German paint some equipment in red, because they have no other colors... its very easy

  7. #16

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    Many of the old timers(Vets and Non-vets) used to paint virtually Everything metal with red Rustoleum paint to prevent surface rusting. I suspect that this bayonet scabbard is just another very typical example of this practice. Back in the 1960's you used to see this horrible painted stuff every where you looked. I have no doubt that the Vet that had this bayonet noticed that the sheath was showing signs of surface rust and, as was the practice of the day, wiped it off(maybe even with steel wool) until it was clean enough and sprayed on some red Rustoleum. Rust problem solved...
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #17

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Many of the old timers(Vets and Non-vets) used to paint virtually Everything metal with red Rustoleum paint to prevent surface rusting. I suspect that this bayonet scabbard is just another very typical example of this practice. Back in the 1960's you used to see this horrible painted stuff every where you looked. I have no doubt that the Vet that had this bayonet noticed that the sheath was showing signs of surface rust and, as was the practice of the day, wiped it off(maybe even with steel wool) until it was clean enough and sprayed on some red Rustoleum. Rust problem solved...
    Yes, the good old trembled or rustoleum :-)
    I love this stuff :-)
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  9. #18

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    Thank you guys, for all your answers.
    There are no traces what so ever of it beeing worn in a frog. It has got some nicks and scratches all over, but those can be from it lying in a box amongst other metal objects.
    The paint has been applied with a brush and the surface is blank.
    It looks old though, and has got the "crazing" you see in the black painted dress scabbards/hitler jugends.
    Best.
    Henrik

  10. #19

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    I would strip the paint and try to see if there is any black left. Worst case scenario repaint it black and lightly wet sand to give old look.
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  11. #20

    Default Re: Matching '38 Elite Diamant, scabbard painted red ??

    I just scratched of some more paint on an excisting scratch and it seems like the scabbard has been cleaned before painted. There are no traces of bluing underneath

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 10-30-2010, 10:17 AM
  2. 09-29-2010, 12:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •