Need help with Nazi Chromed bayonet. Is it real?

[mercerrich]

I am new here so forgive me if I am slow to post things properly. But this old man will give it a try.
Need some help to identify this as fake or real and possible value form a friend who just died.
HPIM2564.jpg
NAZI CHROMED BAYONET with SCABBARD & FROG
POSSIBLY CEREMONIAL
Not sure about authenticity or value. Think I goofed when posting this earlier. Also have a small youth knife to ask about.

Detailed Description:
THE BAYONET
This bayonet is 14 7/8” overall length, with a blade of 10”. There is an ornamented 33/64” brass German Swastika between the rivets on the “right” grip - quillon turned down. The swastika has a very small diamond in the center with what appears to be the Roman numeral II or a 1 c maybe. The top of chromed blade’s thickness is 13/32” at the hilt. The edge is unsharpened.
The only stamped emblem or maker’s cartouche seems to have been chromed over and is almost 3/8” on the Ricasso on the same side as the Nazi emblem. The stamp seems to be circular in shape with a dot slightly off center on the upper interior of design. The design has an elongated balloon shape leaning right over the top of a circle or semi-circle with a ZERO or Letter “O” in the center. There appears to be no serial numbers on any parts.
SPECIAL NOTE: Although this bayonet has a chromed mortise slot with a hole for the cleaning rod inside, it is slightly undersized and will not quite mount on my WW2 K98 Mauser bayonet lug even with the cleaning rod removed. Nor will it mount on my GEW88 lug. Plus the cleaning rod hole is not large enough for the WW2 German issued K98 Mauser cleaning rod head.
Press stud works. All parts seem to be in fair to fine condition.
All the metal is chromed. The handle is hard rubber or plastic with checkering. The rivets have rounded tops protruding above the checkering. The chrome finish on the bottom of the pommel has come off in four small areas revealing a plum colored metal below. The chrome on the tip has been lightly scratched off and reveals light colored steel below.
There is a thin, green, suede leather “spacer” under the hilt that keeps the bottom of the cross guard from contacting the top of the scabbard.

THE SCABBARD
The steel scabbard is 11” in length with a cupped top. It was painted a shiny black paint, but now has several areas where the paint is worn revealing a shiny surface below. There are no cracks or dents. There appears to be very faint stamps on the top of the back of the belt loop.

The rear scabbard area hidden by the frog cannot be viewed as it is inaccessible without possibly damaging the leather frog if I tried to remove it. The frog stud has four horizontal grooves. There is some light pitting on the bottom ball style tip.

THE FROG
The leather frog seems to have been made of highly polished patent leather. It has a few worn spots on the back surface and is starting to crack horizontally on the underside of the pommel area.
There appears to be some very faint and very hard to read stamps on the top of the back of the belt loop area. The letters “SM” are barely observable. Under a magnifying glass, there seems to be a small rectangular stamp like with a small letter of an “O’”G” or maybe a “C’ inside it.
On the front of the frog, above the top of the scabbard, there are other “depressions” that might be a letter “S” and small number above it that starts with a zero. Also there also appears to very faint “winged eagle” stamp about ½” below the frog stud and slightly to the right of center. The frog has some other small cracking and crazing but all the stitching and rivets are present in place.
SPECIAL NOTE: There is no strap to retain the bayonet, nor does it show there ever was one attached to the frog. Also, it is curious that there is indented area where the sewing machine stopped sewing the binding threads into the leather when it came to the belt loop area, but there is definite imprinting to the leather’s upper surface in the belt loop area both front and back.

I have tried to submit as many pictures as possible of the bayonet, scabbard, and the frog, but some details can only be seen close up, in great lighting, and with a magnifying glass due to their age and the wear of the surface. I am in not great hurry to part with this item although inn my old age, I have found that every item has its price per each individuals need and desire. If you need more info, I can give you my phone if that is allowed.

I am a very senior, disabled veteran. I was willed this bayonet among other items upon the passing of my closest friend who was an avid gunsmith, mechanical engineer, skilled author, and collector of muskets, swords, and other military arms and especially all the WW2 guns and German memorabilia. Unfortunately, I have no idea of its value nor any records of possible authenticity to share with you wise people except that he inherited his vast collections from his father and other family members which had been passed down for generations to them.



NAZI CHROMED KNIFE
POSSIBLY CEREMONIAL
Not sure about authenticity or value have 4 pics of it.

Ricasso marked RZM inside a Circle. Then M7/1 ?/over number40. Blade is un-sharpened though. And chrome is coming off and missing from pommel area. Blade measures almost 5 ½” and the overall length is almost 9 ¾”.

Grips seem to be hard rubber with an insert below the cross guard to separate it from the scabbard. Sorry I cannot give you more details of the metal scabbard with a brown leather hanger. The upper attachment rivet is missing that would hold the leather handle’s retaining strap to the leather hanger. The “snap” (if it is one) doesn’t seem to open on that strap. Thank you for your time. Again please accept my apologies for being a bit slow on the uptake here or wasting your time. Rich

[Jerry B]

Both look fine and the RZM marked example is a Hitler Jugend dagger, though the other is not a type I am familiar with, with the inset brass hakenkreus (swastika), so I am less certain on this, though the base bayonet itself does look fine.

[mercerrich]

Thank you for that info. Rich

[Jerry B]

An expert on these will respond sooner or later to your query and can give a more informed opinion on the bayonet with the brass swastika in the grip and also can give you values as I no longer collect such items, though I still have a HJ dagger in my collection.

[Larry C]

Hi Rich welcome to the forum,, for some reason I have seen this bayonet before somewhere , but regardless,, IMO it looks to be a personalized addition to the grip as all Bayonets come from the factory without the swastika. I can not make out the log,, but some bayonets guys here will be along shortly. Nice HJ dagger by the way! Regards Larry

[Wagriff]

Very unusual Logo mark. Looks almost like a backwards WKC facing Knight's Helmet but is incompletely stamped?

[Eric Zentner]

Hi Rich it is a shame that the HJ has been drilled through but still a nice item.
As far as your quistion.

SPECIAL NOTE: Although this bayonet has a chromed mortise slot with a hole for the cleaning rod inside, it is slightly undersized and will not quite mount on my WW2 K98 Mauser bayonet lug even with the cleaning rod removed. Nor will it mount on my GEW88 lug. Plus the cleaning rod hole is not large enough for the WW2 German issued K98 Mauser cleaning rod head.
Press stud works. All parts seem to be in fair to fine condition.


It is a Dress Bayo (only) and will fit nothing, just for side dress looks and not to sure on the added on swaz but good original items.

Eric

[Wagriff]

They refer to these Dress bayonets as "Pseudo bayonets". As Eric said, they fit nothing but Look like regular bayonets for all sakes and purposes other than actually attaching to a rifle!

[mercerrich]

You are very kind to take tyhe time to help me. Thanks, Rich

[mercerrich]

Not made to fit... That seems so different than what I had come to think about German engineering, philosophy, and methodology; "Everything pragmatic, fine working and connected to a practical application". How very interesting to learn that these "special" bayonets were actually made know they would be useless in actual application as a rifle extention for defense or assault. Sounds like a girl I once dated.... Very beautiful but useless except for arm candy. Thanks for that facts guys. Rich