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Pioneer Dress Bayonet E. Pack & Söhne Solingen

Article about: I recently purchased pioneer dress bayonet E. Pack & Söhne Solingen. But it seems thet these bayonet was reworked. Bakelite grip have traces of rough finishing, and the grip nuts, are on

  1. #1

    Default Pioneer Dress Bayonet E. Pack & Söhne Solingen

    I recently purchased pioneer dress bayonet E. Pack & Söhne Solingen.
    But it seems thet these bayonet was reworked.
    Bakelite grip have traces of rough finishing, and the grip nuts, are on the reverse side.
    In what period is these rework was done? TR ear or later? (Nuts to me look very old.)
    Has anyone seen a similar rework?
    I'd appreciate any opinions or criticism.
    Thanks in advance.

    Regards
    Vedran
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  3. #2

    Default

    Hello,

    this is not a pioneer dress Bayonet... such story's are nonsense.

    It is a only one typ of Extra bayonet...

    Every soldier was allowed to by them... there were no differences between units.

    This type ware not soooo popular by the soldiers... because of the simple form... the form of the KS98 was favoured.

    Regards

  4. #3

    Default

    its just a dress bayonet as stated.

  5. #4

    Default

    This kind of dress bayonet is called a pioneer variety:

    wardaggers.com - E-Pack German KS98 Pioneer Dress Bayonet
    http://www.ww2daggers.com/catalogue/...rmy/16760.html
    Wittmann Militaria #34620 Pioneer Bayonet by WKC

    I never written that such dress bayonet pattern, was used by pioneering genus of solider.
    Name a pioneer collector is slang, which make difernce - ordinary dress bayonets.

    Ordinary dress bayonet:

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    Pioneer dress bayonet:

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    Maybe it would be good, to get back to the my original topic question.

    Regards
    Vedran
    Last edited by Rancid66; 02-08-2014 at 04:53 PM.

  6. #5
    ?

    Default

    Vedran, You are right, "pioneer" is modern collector slang for this version of extra-seitengewehre, which is the point sleepwalker was making. Yours looks like a typical E. Pack with the offset large grip bolts with spanner nuts, it wasn't converted they were manufactured that way. If you have some concern with the grip scales, I think we will need close up detailed pictures of the area you are talking about.

    Hope this helps,
    Jim

  7. #6

    Default

    Hi Rancid you have a nice looking dress bayonet extra Seitengewher KS98 I like the Pack makers and am partial to them. I have one like you show with simulated Stag grips and is unmarked. Pack's have the large screw bolts on them and are unique like yours. George Wheeler in his book Seitengewher 1919 to 1945 states that these were a option of a dress bayonet but were not popular with the troops due to there looking like the standard s84/98 service bayonet and that the soliders wanted something different so these type versions were a slow moving item. I think they are quite rare if you look at the number of them offered as opposed to the standard KS98 Tom Johnson done a nice article on them in the 80's sometime I can't remember where I read it but he thought that they along with other dress bayonets were "Sleepers" and would go up in price in the future I think he has been partially right. I like how yours still has the green felt slot out of all of mine I only have two with felt still left in them. timothy

  8. #7

    Default

    Most E-pack pioneer dress bayonet looks like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    My bayonet:

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    Grip finish and fit, seem to me quite well done.
    Also late grip nuts, looks to me quite old.

    Regards
    Vedran
    Last edited by Rancid66; 02-08-2014 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #8
    ?

    Default

    Vedran, Your new pictures really show what your are talking about. The grip scales have been replaced from another bayonet and sanded down to fit with the screws reinstalled backwards. However most Packs do use screw bolts, some rivets, but from what I have seen most are the screw bolt variety.

    Jim

  10. #9

    Default

    This bayonet never was a pioneer bayonet... an the name in the origin never exist... this modern creation is nonsense and fiction... it is always better to inform objectively.
    The only correct information-sources are the original sources and the trader catalogs.

    The Extra-Seitengewehre exist with 3 Hilt-forms... an 2 Bladeforms... + the option the edge the blade... all this can be mixed...

    Example:

    Militaria Fundforum

    Militaria Fundforum

    Militaria Fundforum

    Militaria Fundforum

    Max Weyersberg Solingen - Militaria Fundforum


    the only differences are the numbers in ordering the item by the local trader....

    A pioneer dress bayonet never existed...

  11. #10

    Default

    I suggest you read the topic again a couple of times.

    "I never written that such dress bayonet pattern, was used by pioneering genus of solider.
    Name a "pioneer" is a collector slang, which make difernce - "ordinary" dress bayonets."

    I hope that your re-reading will be successful.

    Regards
    Vedran

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