possible sneak bayonet or contract bayo
Hello ,This is my brothers bayonet which he as aquired lately ,as you can see from the pics it as no markings at all apart from a serial number on the ricasso also no flash guard .Apart from no markings it looks like a regular 3rd pat 84/98 ,any info would be welcome.Regards Paul
12-22-2013 03:17 PM
according to John Walter`s book this is an export model S84/98,made around 1932,maker unknown,serial numbered between 250000 to 260000,yours is 255677,so it fits right in.....Pete.
What is the definition of a "Sneak bayonet" for the readers as well as myself. ....Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hello Larry,These bayonets were made with no markings to cirumvent the versailles treaty when the allies placed restrictions on german arms manufacture,later on the bayonets had maker marks .Aprox dates of types of stamps are, early 30s to 1940 is a S/code for example S/173 would be the maker alex coppel.1937-1941 they usualy had the makers name stamped on the blade and 1939 to 1945 they had a three letter code, Asw would be the maker EUF Horster.These dates do overlap,regards Paul,Ps the web site german 84 has everything anyone would like to know about k98 bayonets.Also thanks to Pete for his info
Last edited by paul a; 12-22-2013 at 09:18 PM.
"sneek bayonet" is a newtime word creation out of the US... nothing in common with the realty.
bayonets out of a army contract, like the WUK or EF Hörster bayonets since 1927, had to marked with Maker and year of manufacturing. Since 1934 they use the S-Code. This code system was introduced to hide the secret re-arming of the German Reichswehr.
Bayonets for authority contracts often - until 1945 - has so called "commercial markings" or no markings... so this is not a phenomenon out of the early 1930´years.
This export bayonet is scare... made for spain.
Other sources said this is made for Abesinnen. In the origin this bayontes had an muzzle ring. Above the serial number 255000 this muzzle ring is missing. Other sources believed this bayonets are given to the growing Wehrmacht, because of a lack in the S84/98 Production, out of a stock holding, because the order for Abesinnen were canceled while the Italian army occupied Abesinnen.
The overworked blade etc. IMO shows that this export S84/98 go to spain... all.
Last edited by Sleepwalker; 12-22-2013 at 10:19 PM.
Nice bayos and interesting info
under the Grips, on the tang, you can find a WaA stamp. typical for Export to Spain.
Originally applied to German Luger pistols with blank (unmarked) toggles. “Sneak” was how they were described “back in the day” until further research determined that it was just a manufacturing variation that affected a relatively limited group of pistols. And Sleepwalker is correct in that this might be considered a “commercial” contract for a foreign government. Which could possibly be debatable depending on who or what paid to have them manufactured and shipped. With some having ground off or partially ground off Waffenmt markings - so why was this done?? For which I have no direct answer, but possibly as a “sanitized” version as is seen with some other covert weapons?
by Larry C
And the reason for them of course most likely being the Guerra Civil Española (Spanish Civil War). As military aid to the Nationalists who had almost immediate assistance from Germany. With the straightwing style eagle WaA 253 Waffenamt I think being a good “fit" for the mid to later time period of the war. With another example pictured here still with traces of the original (?) cosmoline (storage/packing grease) but no serial number. Which is also seen (ie: no number) with some of the other Spanish marked bayonets from this series. Best Regards, Fred
The WaA Question is easy to describe... like the Portugal Contract, the spain army let he weapons proof by inspectors of the WaA in their name, because this inspectors has the experience and the knowlege to say what is correct and whats not... so it was not necessary to send a own Spain or Portuguese group to Solingen or proof them in their countries.
To spain i think goes 2 contracts... the first blank with the number an the blade and a second, blued, with fleshguard and scabbard with one middel screw, also a WaA 253 under the gripps.
The bayonet Frogprince show, i don´t know for what country it was made... most can be find in a depot condition. This model has no WaA marking... only a number. Sing "o" on the blade.