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SS Walking out dress bayonet ?

Article about: Hello Gentkmen, Need opinions about the below pictured walking-out dress bayonet... See "SS" markings... I'm far a way to be a bayonet expret... And it's the first time I saw this

  1. #1

    Unhappy SS Walking out dress bayonet ?

    Hello Gentlmen,

    Need opinions about the below pictured walking-out dress bayonet...

    See the "SS" markings... I'm far a way to be a bayonet expret... And it's the first time I saw this kind of makings on a walking-out bayonet blade....

    Did something like this really exist ? I'm ready to learn... But so far I know... If I'm right, is this the design "copyrighting" of Mr DIEBITSCH who designed the SS sword, M36 dagger chaine and other SS items...

    Thanks a lot for more info about that.

    Pascal
    PS. sorry for the bad an small pics...
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Pascal BERNHARD; 12-07-2014 at 12:07 PM.

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  3. #2

    Question

    I found that about the same subject...

    Link : SS bayonet genuine?

    Confirms my bad thoughts... "added Stamp"

    or perhaps no.... "SS Kulturzeichen"

    Finally we don't never really know....
    Last edited by Pascal BERNHARD; 12-07-2014 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #3

    Default

    Hi Pascal//a very beautiful WKC Bayonet.......Kulturzeichens were always placed in obscure locations..never seen appearing itself as a logo. I would liken it to fine china which markings were always beneath the artifact. CH SS daggers, Swords and Allach do not have this Culture stamping on the forefront..always in a secondary viewable area. IMO this bayonet does not fit what was seen in comparison with other SS related stamped artifacts. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #4

    Default

    Thanks Larry !

    On this one the double "S" is stamped on the back, maker logo on the front...
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #5

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    Hello,

    IMO a fake marking. This symbol is the trade mark Professor Karl Diebitsch... no accaptane marking...
    Diebisch never designed walking out bayontes...

    WKC is the maker.

    poorly a "upgrated" and so damagend original...

  7. #6

    Default

    can you please show better pics of the knot?

    it looks not like a SS Knot.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote by Sleepwalker View Post
    can you please show better pics of the knot?

    it looks not like a SS Knot.
    agree with you...

    I found this pics on a French Forum and was looking for more info about this item...

    Sorry but that's all what I have...
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #8

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    Quote by Pascal BERNHARD View Post
    Thanks Larry !

    On this one the double "S" is stamped on the back, maker logo on the front...
    Hi Pascal,.Yes understood......my point was that the Kulturzeichen was stamped in less viewable positions and not out in the open being stamped on the ricasso area. Its a great conditioned dress bayo but the addition may have somewhat depreciated the value. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

    Default

    Hello,

    the knot is one for the Bahnschutz... no SS.

    this kind of marking - equal where and how - on walking out bayonets are always a fake...

    The trade mark of a dagger designer - and nothing else is this marking - is totaly frong on a dress bayonet.

    The name "Kulturzeichen" is also a post 1945 creation...

    Regards

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote by Sleepwalker View Post
    Hello,

    the knot is one for the Bahnschutz... no SS.

    this kind of marking - equal where and how - on walking out bayonets are always a fake...

    The trade mark of a dagger designer - and nothing else is this marking - is totaly frong on a dress bayonet.

    The name "Kulturzeichen" is also a post 1945 creation...

    Regards
    I know that various and sundry books/references for many years have repeated the claim that the "Kulturzeichen" of the SS is the "personal mark", "trademark", "hallmark", "copyright", "whatever", etc. etc. of Professor Karl Diebitsch - supposedly as the designer of all sorts of things. But actually proving it to be an a period fact IMO is another matter. And if you have the patience to read through the attached somewhat lengthy discussion I think that you will see some names that you might recognize as authors/contributors (etc.) in the area of TR collecting.

    SS Sword - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    NOT that I'm saying that it legitimizes the dress bayonet in question. It's just that I see no point in legitimizing what IMO is an "old wives tale" about Professor Karl Diebitsch that has no known basis in fact for new collectors. With the invitation to anyone either here or elsewhere - to reopen the topic if you have some actual period proof to support a different conclusion.

    PS: The use of "Kulturzeichen" was identified as such by Joe Wotka a well known U.S. arms collector who has contributed a great deal of period information in a number of venues including books for collectors. And I personally have always found him to be a reliable source of information. With the term first appearing to my knowledge in TW's SS book as coming from a period publication that dealt with the new swords for the German Police.

    Best Regards, Fred

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