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Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

Article about: I purchased two k98s at a recent antiques show here in NYS - the first is a Berg&Co 41agv #4175e with matching scabbard and frog and the second one is a Rich. A. Herder #9477, 37 on spin

  1. #1

    Default Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

    I purchased two k98s at a recent antiques show here in NYS - the first is a Berg&Co 41agv #4175e with matching scabbard and frog and the second one is a Rich. A. Herder #9477, 37 on spine and matching scabbard dated 1937. This did not come with the scabbard I have pictured with it. The finish on the Herder is a plumb color and smells like kerosene while the Berg is standard finish I am familiar with and smells like cosmolene or grease.

    What has caused the coating on the Herder? Should I wipe it off with solvent or is this original? Or known to occur? Is it from what the vet stored it in?

    Thanks for any insight.

    Joe
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish   Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish  

    Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish   Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish  

    Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish   Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish  

    Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish   Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish  

    Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish  
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  3. #2

    Default Re: Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

    These are 2 nice K98s that you have. I left a message for the Restoration guys to come over and take a peek. I feel your guess is right that the Vet coated it in something and dried on the blade, or something to that effect. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

    Default Re: Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

    The fairly strong reddish color on the 1937 is probably from being refinished and is actually a red oxide (instead of a blue oxide), and I believe usually attributed to the presence of too much heat in the bluing tank. With a reddish hue (aka "plum") also sometimes seen with some OEM bayonets and pistols presumably for the same reason. With 1937 well within the time frame for German reworks, but a much closer look needed to be sure. With the caveat that some postwar reworks also have a reddish cast, but that is not my sense of the bayonet with the images posted. FP

  5. #4

    Default Re: Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

    Two very nice bayonets. I especially like wooden grips of the early rearmament years.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

    The plum colouring on the blade and pommel may be from a post war refinishing process. This is typical seen on Russian Captured (RC) weapons - example: SVT 40 rifle bolts and carriers, K98 bolts. I have never seen a RC bayonet though so I can't comment on whether the Soviets refurbished bayonets this way. Any waffenamts on your bayonet? What condition are they?

    Has anyone seen a bayonet refurbished by the Germans this way? I have a German refurbished Polish bayonet and the once silver blade is now a very, very dark blue, almost black.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Two K98s both with matching scabbards; question on ones finish

    Agreed Dastier. Look similar to mine. Great looking knives. thanks for showing

  8. #7

    Default

    I think Fred is on the right track with regards the bluing process being the cause of the reddish tinge/hue. Whether it's been reblued is another matter, notice the cross guard and locking lug appears uneffected. My understanding is if the chemical process used to blue is not correct, ie with a hot tank bluing the temperature not being correct, or if the solution mix of salts is not correct or diluted or contaminated (which can happen in after a certain number of batches), all these possibly could contribute to the colour emerging as reddish. Some suggest that steel chemical make up could also have an effect. Bear in mind this colouration may not have appeared immediately after bluing, but some years later. If it came out of the tank looking like that QC may well have put it aside for re-treatment. Certainly not seen very often on a K98 bayonet.

  9. #8
    ?

    Default

    It could be the R.Herder was reworked, some prewar maker were observed with a red blueing , b.r.Andy

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