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94 year old former Auschwitz guard goes on trial in Germany

Article about: Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:30 am Associated Press | DETMOLD, Germany (AP) — A 94-year-old former Auschwitz guard is going on trial on 170,000 counts of accessory to murder in west

  1. #11

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    Quote by CBH View Post
    I'll begin , it seems to me like a witch hunt for SS camp guard survivors . Germany and the West in general were guilty of using former SS member with blood soaked pasts to fight the rise of Communism in Europe . The German Police were all but forgiven for their pasts , and put back into uniform . The US with operation Paper Clip used SS men and white washed their pasts as well . So I feel it's Western Guilt , making governments hunt down the few survivors left in an attempt too make up for past complicities with the infamous SS . Also anyone who could spill the beans on them is long dead , this man has unfortunately out lived the guilty and make the mistake of talking about his past , this trail wouldn't have happened if he wasn't interviewed . Which is truly sad .
    These people have to be held accountable how ever old they are, but in saying that what real purpose it serves is unclear. I would not say its Western Guilt driving these forward, more a case of German guilt, perhaps they are trying to put across a message for the future. Germany is in a strange place at the moment I feel. Its complete hypocrisy really.

  2. #12

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    Maybe a little off subject, but relevant. I have just read a book entitled Hanns and Rudolph, about the life of Rudolph Hoss, Kommandant of Auschwitz, and the German Jew that tracked him down after the war, Brilliant read if you ever get the chance. A real insight to the mentality of people

  3. #13
    CBH
    CBH is offline
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    This man made the mistake of talking about a past that is very uncomfortable for Germany , a time when rampant Nationalism fuelled political actions that resulted in the second world war and millions of civilian deaths . The truly frighting part is , the heart of a camp guard , an executioner , lay in the heart of all of us . It all depends on how readily we believe the propaganda , if you believe they are subhuman you will treat them as such . And that is the sin of all mankind not just Germany . Germany just has the distinction of mass murder in the industrial age , mechanized and photographed .

  4. #14

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    No matter how much time has passed, we must always remember what occurred and the guilty, no matter how old, need to be held responsible for their deeds. At least he will not take a long drop at the end of a short rope.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  5. #15

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    With the migrant/refugee crisis, call it what you wish, Germany and indeed Europe face uncertain and possibly dark times ahead once again, we can already see a clash of cultures developing, this could clearly be seen on New Years Eve all over Germany

  6. #16

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    As was the case with both John Demjanjuk and later Oskar Groning, the German courts found that just to demonstrate employment at a camp, rather than have to link both to specific murders was enough to implicate them in the killings committed there. So I imagine on that premise Herr Hanning will almost certainly be found guilty as well, although it's interesting to note that when Demjanjuk was sent to trial in Israel, the Israeli Supreme Court released him when it was proven he wasn't "Ivan the Terrible" as he had been convicted of being, and the USA from where he was originally extradited from to Germany for trial had deliberately withheld info that would have cleared him on that ONE charge.

    Who would ever have thought that a Jewish court would return such a verdict under the original circumstances? But they did, and all credit to them. Thus the interim conviction in Germay was anulled until an appeal was heard, but Demjanjuk died before this could happen and as such under German law was an innocent man at the time of his death.

    As Historyman in my opinion rightly says, Germany is in a strange place now, the apparent national collective guilt that seems to have risen mainly since Angela Merkel came to office has gone into overdrive where before there really only seemed to be any concerned efforts to elicit justice by the Simon Wiesenthal Institute for many decades prior to that. The actual reasoning and sudden cries for justice has become in my opinion merely self-serving double standards, hypocrisy and especially, shameless politicking by more than one nation. Let's face it, this happens time and time again, and always leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.

    I realise that the desire of the mod's is to keep this thread non political, but this subject cannot be properly discussed otherwise, as the two are inextricably entwined. Therefore it might be best to allow the details to be examined openly or close the thread as it will hold no real merit otherwise.

    Obviously, some careful moderating will be required for this to maintained, and whether there is a will to do this for the sake of keeping a serious discussion on track is another matter completely. Again, this is just my opinion, but I have taken the time to think it over carefully rather than quickly shooting from the hip, as they say, and therefore hope my remarks are taken in context.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  7. #17
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    This thread is going to put a cat amongst the pigeons. I think I will sit back and watch though
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture eating popcorn.jpg  

  8. #18
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    Simply put, the membership need not discuss anything unless it directly relates to whether or not the individual is actually guilty of being involved in the greatest crime in modern history. THIS IS THE ISSUE HERE. Anything else will not be relevant and will ultimately result in the closure of the thread and possible action against violators - should it indeed be deemed imperative by the moderating team.

    Carl
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture sanzs.jpg  
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

  9. #19

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    Quote by CARL88 View Post
    Simply put, the membership need not discuss anything unless it directly relates to whether or not the individual is actually guilty of being involved in the greatest crime in modern history. THIS IS THE ISSUE HERE. Anything else will not be relevant and will ultimately result in the closure of the thread and possible action against violators - should it indeed be deemed imperative by the moderating team.

    Carl
    Then surely all that is relevant here is proving that Herr Hanning was a member of the SS guard at Auschwitz according to the prosecutors of the case? As chief prosecutor Kurt Schrimm stated back in September 2013 when asked about the forty then surviving ex-guards of the original forty nine investigated (nine had since died at that time):

    "The accused... are all former guards at the concentration camps Auschwitz-Birkenau and we take the view that this job - regardless of what they can be individually accused of - makes them guilty of complicity in murder."

    So, my question would be, is it safe to assume that on the defendant being proven to be a member of the camp staff, (and not as previous German courts considered, to be a suspect who was accused of personally committing atrocities), then he will be sentenced to a term of imprisonment as was Oskar Groning?? Or will some other ruling be sanctioned?? I think that the verdict on the previous case and with the chief prosecutors statement back in 2013 it's a foregone conclusion and he should be packing his suitcase right now....., assuming he survives until the final verdict, on this earth that is.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #20
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    If proven to be a member of the staff who served within the Auschwitz camp system, then yes, I believe that it is certainly plausible that the court will pass sentence upon the accused.

    Some readers of the thread are perhaps not fully aware of the background to the well publicised advertising campaign which serves to highlight the contemporary pursuit of Nazi war criminals...

    The Wiesenthal Center publicity campaign "SPÄT, ABER NICHT ZU SPÄT" ("Late, but not too late"), launched in the summer of 2013, was designed to give a boost to Operation Last Chance II - the search for heretofore unprosecuted war criminals in Germany. For those who do not know, the campaign was launched following the Demanjuk conviction in München. To understand exactly why the hunt continues at such a late hour, one needs to note the key points outlined below by Dr. Efraim Zuroff, a man often referred to as the chief "Nazi Hunter":

    1. The passage of time in no way diminishes the guilt of the killers.

    2. Old age should not afford immunity to murderers.

    3. Every one of the Nazis' victims deserves that an effort be made to hold their killers accountable.

    4. This ongoing effort is a reminder of the importance of Holocaust crimes and a warning to contemporary anti-Semites and racists.

    5. These trials are helpful in the ongoing struggle against Holocaust denial and distortion.


    Carl
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

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