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Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

Article about: Most of the uniforms were made in the textile workshops of some of the larger Konzentrationslagers, such as KL-Dachau, KL-Sachsenhausen or f.KL-Ravensbrück. The material differed slightly fr

  1. #41

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Quote by Totenhead View Post
    I find seeing these very unsettling
    I do too, I appreciate the historical importance of these items and the need to preserve them, they just conjur up such sad images of pain and suffering, I personally wouldn't want to own one.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Quote by sandgroper View Post
    I do too, I appreciate the historical importance of these items and the need to preserve them, they just conjur up such sad images of pain and suffering, I personally wouldn't want to own one.
    I have to concur with that

  3. #43
    ?

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Hi

    my little contribution to this post

    I recieve the jacket from the owner, a belgian citizen, he was at KL-Mittelbau-Dora.

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    regards, hughes
    Last edited by CARL; 03-04-2013 at 04:03 PM. Reason: correction of information

  4. #44

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Was it common practice not to have the prisoner nationality marked red winkel patch also on inmate jackets at Dora?
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    I was wondering that myself-why no insignia beneath the number patch on this jacket? I have to say, though, that I find it more than abit questionable as to the seemingly overdone crudity and wear for many of these supposedly genuine uniforms. The attachment of the number patch, for example, looks to have been done on purpose for crude appearance effect. I wouldn't imagine that an inmate, if required to stitch on his or her own number swatch would want to have to reapply it every week or so, which is about how long some of these pieces look like they would have lasted in place, from their "stitching". I fully realize that life in Any camp was no bed of roses to say the least, but, as Carl said earlier, the inmates clothing were, by Necessity, usually of fairly decent quality, and yet nearly every "genuine" article you see seems to be about 2 hours away from completely disintegrating away into nothing or else is so amazingly filthy and tattered one has to wonder just why such a thing was even saved. Clothing was in dear need immediately after the war's end-true, but why, of the many thousands to choose, would an inmate find the worst condition pieces he could possibly find and take Them home with him? There is, disgustingly enough, an enormous but generally unrealized market today for KL inmate clothing, patches and uniforms and personally, I don't believe that half of it all is even the real deal, but simply an over exaggerated made for filthy and tattered uniform that people "feel looks the way they Think it Should look like". Quite often, as seen in the accompanying photos for this thread, the museum held provenanced uniforms look substantial and sturdy-a sharp contrast with so many of the offered for sale "genuine" pieces one sees elsewhere. If there's money in it to be made, Someone Somewhere will immediately begin cranking out fakes.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #46

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

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    Neither man in this last photo appear to have nationality patch visible.

    From the collection at Yad Vashem Photo Archive

    A collection of photographs taken by First Lieutenant Walter Frentz in the tunnels of the Dora-Mittelbau missile factory probably in early July 1944. Frentz was a PK photographer, who was permanently attached to the Fuehrer's headquarters, and was given special film assignments on behalf of the Reich's leadership. In early July 1944 he was asked to prepare a movie about the V-1 missile for use in newsreels, and about the V-2 missile for internal use. While filming the movie about the V-2, Frentz was permitted to photograph at the secret subterranean missile factory Dora-Mittelbau, where most of the workers were concentration camp inmates. Frentz also used a stills camera, usually with color film. He used this equipment for the pictures in this collection. In the collection one can see the factory's tunnels, the camp inmates and the German experts who produced the advanced missiles.
    Last edited by StefanM; 03-05-2013 at 11:07 AM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  7. #47
    ?

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    this jacket is original and comes directly from the family. it was given to me as well with some documents. His prisoner number is also on the documents. I find it unfortunate that you put it in doubt.

    4thskorpion : thanks for the pictures

    cheers, hughes

  8. #48

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Thank you Hughes for posting your jacket, this is most interesting. It is arguably impossible to 100% 'prove' that any item is genuine, but I have examined many items of concentration camp clothing (and uploaded pictures to the first page of this thread) and it seems quiet apparent to me that Hughes jacket is genuine. I have never seen or heard of any evidence of this material being faked to such a high standard, (I am well aware of the many crude fakes in existence) and this particular cloth has a very distinctive look to it. In this case I think we can take Hughes word for it that it came direct from the family and is entirely authentic.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Quote by pegase View Post
    this jacket is original and comes directly from the family. it was given to me as well with some documents. His prisoner number is also on the documents. I find it unfortunate that you put it in doubt.

    4thskorpion : thanks for the pictures

    cheers, hughes
    Hi Hughes, would it be possible to post scans of the documents you mentioned?

    Do you know where the prisoner number was allocated as it is a very low number suggesting an early incarceration at the issuing camp and it is the first time I have seen a number preceded by a "zero". Very interesting, would the numbering go from "0001" to "9999" and then some other system because 10,000 prisoners was not a huge number of concentration camp inmates to "pass through" any particular camp.

    Below is a similar low number patch posted earlier in this thread which does not have a preceding "zero".

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    Two of the first 30 inmates of Auschwitz (who were all German criminals) and the original "Kapos" at the camp, showing their number patches again without any preceding "zeroes". So this does make the Dora jacket numbering a very interesting variant.

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    Kiesel, Küsel, Otto —b.1909-05-16, Auschwitz camp serial number 2

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    Witschorek, Leo —b.1899-08-04, Auschwitz camp serial number 30
    Last edited by StefanM; 03-05-2013 at 04:55 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Concentration Camp Prisoner's Uniforms

    Something else that is puzzles me about that ebay Auschwitz jacket, the seller says the number is 28388...

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    However to me the number on the patch in the photo of the jacket is 2836 8 or 9...looking at the stencil format of the "8" following the numeral "2".....

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    The photo is very low-res but to me the fourth digit is "6" not "8".

    Therefore if the number is after all 28368 then this jacket belonged to a Georg Israel Stergard—b.1893-10-09, camp serial number:28368 (source Auschwitz museum database) and more importantly...

    From the data contained in the so called Death Books of Auschwitz Concentration Camp, Georges Stergard,
    Paris b.1893-10-09 (Paris), denomination:mosaisch, remarks: zgin.1942-04-12 w Auschwitz
    meaning Georges Stergard died 12 April 1942 so his jacket would have been given to another inmate to use as was standard practice in the camps and this jacket would not have survived today with the number of inmate 28368—Georges Stergard—its original owner.

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    Adjusted the contrast to try a see if the number is any clearer but to me it is more like:28369

    Second possibility if the last digit is a "9" not "8" giving a number of 28369 then this jacket belonged to a Samuel Ossona-Mandes— b.1908-05-30, camp serial number:28369 (source Auschwitz museum database) and again more importantly...

    From data in NOR : ACVM9540013A du 6 juillet 1995, Journal officiel du 6 septembre 1995

    Au lieu de « Ossono Mendes (Achille, Samuel), né le 30 mai 1908 ŕ Paris (11e) (Seine), décédé le 14 avril 1942 ŕ Auschwitz (Pologne) » ie Samuel Ossona-Mandes died in Auschwitz on 14 April 1942. Meaning his jacket would also have be reused by another inmate with another number and would not have survived intact with the number 28369 of Samuel Ossona-Mandes.

    For info inmate number 28388 which the seller says is on the jacket belonged to Charles Breider— b.1920-05-19, camp serial number:28388 (source Auschwitz museum database) I couldn't find any other data about him.
    Last edited by StefanM; 03-05-2013 at 05:23 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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