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THE DAY WE BURNED OUR NEIGHBORS ALIVE ‘The Crime and the Silence’ The Jedwabne massacre

Article about: “I can’t sleep at night. I see it as if it were yesterday. … That terrifying scream that probably didn’t last for more than two minutes, it’s still inside me.” The woman speaking these words

  1. #21

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    Quote by Jerry B View Post
    OK, your statement did not make clear your point.
    Krakow1’s comments seemed quite clear to me.

    Two accounts are published in English and get the spotlight. Several academic studies by reputable historians carefully investigate the claims and find serious fault with them. Scholarly refutations are published. These challenges do not see English translation and hence remain largely unknown outside Poland.

    Quote by Jerry B View Post
    There are plenty who write books to deny the unpleasant past and the holocaust in particular and it is not possible for me to have an opinion.
    Very true. But we need to be careful here as we are comparing apples and oranges. In the case of the Holocaust the voices doubting that it happened are decidedly in the minority lunatic fringe. In the case of Jedwabne we have the opposite where accomplished and respected historians have investigated and criticized the methodology and conclusions arrived at by two writers, neither of which are accredited historians.

    The only way to gain an understanding of what actually happened is by weighing the arguments put forth by both camps. Here is the late Tomasz Strzembosz’s study of the topic translated by my friend Mariusz Wesolowski who lives here locally. A worthwhile read:

    Tomasz Strzembosz Jedwabne 1941

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  2. #22

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    Please don't use Gross and his work as a historical reference - his work is rather poor and questioned by many other historians.
    Let's not forget that Poland has 6,532 Righteous Among the Nations !
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  3. #23

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    Quote by harryamb2 View Post
    there's good and bad in all nations.
    True indeed, but this subject reminds of calling GERMAN Concentration Camps as POLISH Concentrations Camps.
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  4. #24

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    The more I read into this particular evil episode from the information kindly provided by all you Gentlemen, the more I feel that the writers of the original posts book, have at the very least a "tarnished" history. There does seem to be an overwhelming weight of testimony contradicting much of what is claimed in their book.
    I still thank Jerry very much for bringing this forward, as it was brought to the forum with the best intentions, I'm sure. Clearly a work that needs to be looked at as either filth or with some level of truth, although I am now inclined to believe from what Tony and Krakow have posted, that the authors hold very little, if no credit whatsoever. Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

  5. #25

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here are couple of quotes :

    First one from Yitzak Zuckerman, nom de guerre "Antek", fighter of ZOB (Jewish Fighting Organization), Zionist, socialist.

    " He, who spreads hate toward Poles commits a sin. WE have to remember the opposite. In context of antysemitizm and general apathy these People were great. For helping Us they put themselves in great danger. It was a great danger not only for the person helping, but also for the whole House where they lived. I am repeating this today, to get a Jew killed one Polish informant was enough. But to save one Jew sometimes help was needed from ten righteous Poles, and help from Polish Families, even if it was done for money. Some let us use their apartments, some helped make fake ID's. We have to understand passive help of a Baker who did not inform the Germans. Obviously for a Polish Family of four it was problematic when all of sudden they had to buy double portions of rolls and meat. And a big problem was going far away from where one lived to supply hiding Jewish family. And I say, it does not matter if they took money for it. LIFE WAS NOT EASY FOR POLES EITHER. It was not easy for Poles to live. There were widows, clerks who made little extra money helping Jews. And ther were different People who helped.
    NIE ZAPOMNIJMY O KRESACH.

  6. #26

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    DR Antoni Docha, Righteous Among Nations. He and his Wife are credited with saving Fania and Helena Biblowicz, saved in Town of Zukiewicz by Grodno.
    Dr Docha was Chief Sanitary County Sokolka, AK.
    He says this to them :

    " You are Jewish, if they find You here they will kill me and my wife and my daughters. I have commandment from Almighty God to help suffering Jews, but I am not sure if I am right by doing this.. I go to Church, call God, He does not answer. So I decide to save You. If God has given you help and brought you here after your escape from Getto and Germans did not find You, I will help You. "
    NIE ZAPOMNIJMY O KRESACH.

  7. #27

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    Quote by meyle77 View Post
    . . . Let's not forget that Poland has 6,532 Righteous Among the Nations
    Without intentionally piling on here. Only to briefly explain the “Righteous Among Nations” concept, and to honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice. The last paragraph is vitally important to grasp as the punishment of summary execution did not apply in other occupied nations. The Germans made the consequences very clear to all Poles. Despite this countless thousands laid down their lives for their fellow man:

    Quote by Wiki View Post
    Polish citizens have the world's highest count of individuals who have been recognized as Righteous Among Nations by Yad Vashem as non-Jews who saved Jews from extermination during the Holocaust. There are 6,532 (as of 1 January 2015) Polish men and women recognized as "Righteous", about 26 percent of the total number of 24,811 awards.

    It is estimated that hundreds of thousands of Poles concealed and aided hundreds of thousands of their Polish-Jewish neighbors. Many of these initiatives were carried out by individuals, but there also existed organized networks of Polish resistance which were dedicated to aiding Jews – most notably, the Żegota organization.

    In German-occupied Poland the task of rescuing Jews was especially difficult and dangerous. All household members were punished by death if a Jew was found concealed in their home or on their property. One study estimates that the number of Poles who were killed by the Nazis for aiding Jews was as high as tens of thousands
    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  8. #28

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    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Krakow1’s comments seemed quite clear to me.


    Regards,
    Tony
    I replied to his first comment which did not make clear what he was saying at all and was easiest read as denyin the incident ever took place, only later did he add further clarification and more evidence that contradicts the original authors work to which I made my second reply to him.

    As I posted, I am only able to comment second hand on these events, as in the case of all history and as you mention, weighing the evidence is all that can be done.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  9. #29

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    While interesting discussion, this thread is treading on thin ice as far as testing forum boundaries is concerned.
    Tempers will become strained to breaking point so lets agree that some bad people did some horrible things in the past - the details of which are not completely settled and while we cannot forget, we cannot correct the wrongs here and now.

    Lets move on ...... Please?
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

  10. #30

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    .
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

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