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KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

Article about: by porta Regarding the gas chamber, I do not think the Dachau Gas chamber was used for mass murder. But might have been used on a smaller scale. We know for certain that the four smaller cha

  1. #11
    JMM
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Excellent thread! Thanks for sharing it and for the time it took you

  2. #12

    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    I thought it had been confirmed that the "gas chambers" at Dachau were non-existent other than for delousing clothing? if that was so why a disguised "shower" block and reports of prisoners being gassed? Or is this another post-war reconstruction like the barrack blocks?

    Almost 32,000 prisoners died at Dachau and its subcamps and the crematoria were built to simply dispose of the dead. I think it has been established beyond doubt there is no evidence of mass murder within the camp and I believe typhus was the biggest cause of death at Dachau.
    I collect, therefore I am.

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  3. #13
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    There was no mass murder - using gas chambers, at Dachau, that is indeed quite correct. However, the museum itself states that the facilities were designed for the purpose of murder - albeit in much smaller quantities than the apparatus at some of the other camps, such as those located further east in the General Government area. Roughly half of the victims died during the latter stage of the camp's existence, i.e. in 1945, as thousands of evacuated prisoners arrived from camps throughout the collapsing Reich. Typhus was indeed a main cause of death.
    Last edited by CARL; 07-31-2013 at 07:10 PM.
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  4. #14

    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Quote by TIGER88 View Post
    There was no mass murder - using gas chambers, at Dachau, that is indeed quite correct. However, the museum itself states that the facilities were used for the purpose of murder - albeit in much smaller quantities than the apparatus at some of the other camps, such as those located further east in the General Government area. Roughly half of the victims died during the latter stage of the camp's existence, i.e. in 1945, as thousands of evacuated prisoners arrived from camps throughout the collapsing Reich. Typhus was indeed a main cause of death.
    From the USHMM:

    In 1942, the crematorium area was constructed next to the main camp. It included the old crematorium and the new crematorium (Barrack X) with a gas chamber. There is no credible evidence that the gas chamber in Barrack X was used to murder human beings. Instead, prisoners underwent "selection"; those who were judged too sick or weak to continue working were sent to the Hartheim "euthanasia" killing center near Linz, Austria. Several thousand Dachau prisoners were murdered at Hartheim. Further, the SS used the firing range and the gallows in the crematoria area as killing sites for prisoners.

    If this is so, then why the need for the camp administration to construct "fake" showers (which we associate with extermination gas chambers) in Dachau when thousands of inmates slated for death were already being transported from Dachau to Hartheim Castle near Linz to be gassed?

    "Thousands of prisoners, who were selected for extermination, were sent to other camps or to Hartheim Castle near Linz to be gassed."


    Source: Distel, Barbara, and Ruth Jakusch, eds. Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945 (14th edition). Brussels: Commite Internationale de Dachau, 1978.

    If small numbers of prisoners were actually gassed at Dachau why would they not simply have be thrown into one of the several fully functional gas chambers that were used for delousing clothing...as can be seen in the photo below which shows one such delousing gas chamber with a stack of clothes by its open door.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    USHMM: View of the door to the gas chamber at Dachau next to a large pile of uniforms. [Photograph #31327]
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    This argument has continued for many years - no doubt will do for many more. Image below from KZ-Gedenkstätte-Dachau.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture DACH.GAS.JPG  
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

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    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

  6. #16
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    Thanks for posting.

    Presumably the Dachau "execution" wall had some kind of impact absorbing structure in front of it similar to the "Wall of Tears" at Auschwitz which had a wooden log and black tarred cork matting structure to absorb the bullets of the firing squad to prevent damage to the wall itself and ricocheting injuring the shooters?

    Attachment 546896

    Above: Dachau execution wall.....


    Attachment 546897

    ...and the bullet absorbing structure in front of the so-called "Wall of Tears" execution wall at Auschwitz I.
    It is probably quite safe to say that a similar protective form was likely present at Dachau. Execution sites were not simply any random wall in the vicinity - evidence of this is present in the horrific images taken at the mass shooting at Lidice, when bed mattresses were place behind the villagers prior to their murder.
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

  7. #17

    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Quote by TIGER88 View Post
    This argument has continued for many years - no doubt will do for many more. Image below from KZ-Gedenkstätte-Dachau.
    The museum signboard is extremely misleading...potential center of mass murder doesn't make it a center of mass murder in actuality. The text on the sign has been misquoted often as being a factual occurrence at Dachau.

    The original delousing gas chamber doors had stencilled warnings painted on them to convey something along the lines of "Danger & Gas" but these were painted over sometime after the war supposedly so as not to confuse later visitors to the camp.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Photo source: USHMM
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Interesting pics.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Again thank you all for your kind words and reading the article.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau Visit 16-02-2013

    Quote by TIGER88 View Post
    It is probably quite safe to say that a similar protective form was likely present at Dachau. Execution sites were not simply any random wall in the vicinity - evidence of this is present in the horrific images taken at the mass shooting at Lidice, when bed mattresses were place behind the villagers prior to their murder.
    I agree with you both, the Dachau execution wall most likely would have had a some kind of impact absorbing structure in front of it. Al tough nothing physical remains on the Dachau execution site today regarding such a structure having once been there, there is a hint on the informational sign describing the courtyard that there was. And it would make sense such a structure being there at the time.

    Regarding the gas chamber, I do not think the Dachau Gas chamber was used for mass murder. But might have been used on a smaller scale.

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